Quote from: RPGPundit;387910Nope, powergamer art-porn for Swine in self-denial about wanting to be powergamers (because you were told "artistes don't do that!!").

RPGPundit

Sigh, both your act and your dishonesty is getting real boring.

I finally(!) got Alchemicals yesterday. I am so jazzed!

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPundit;387910Nope, powergamer art-porn for Swine in self-denial about wanting to be powergamers (because you were told "artistes don't do that!!").

RPGPundit

Nope, only one way to look at anything in the world and that's Pundit's way or it's just retarded Swinery. :rolleyes: Fucking tired....

Quote from: DeadUematsu;388009If Exalted is Pretentious Powergamer Porn, then D&D is Fantasy for Fuckwits. Both statements totally miss the point.

Except that only the proponents of one of these two games go around saying that the other game is "Roll playing not role playing" while ironically playing one of the most powergamey and mechanically complicated games around.

RPGPundit

So then your argument is really with the fans of the game, not so much the game itself...?
I can sympathize with that. WW fanboys have been helping me to stay away for years.

Quote from: RPGPundit;388190Except that only the proponents of one of these two games go around saying that the other game is "Roll playing not role playing" while ironically playing one of the most powergamey and mechanically complicated games around.

RPGPundit

Really? I've heard most of the roleplay/rollplay blather form 3.5ed fans in my experience.

Quote from: Simlasa;388196So then your argument is really with the fans of the game, not so much the game itself...?
I can sympathize with that. WW fanboys have been helping me to stay away for years.

Not just with the fans, no. In WW's products themselves, they routinely talk about how you have to educate the "unwashed masses" who are playing those stupid powergamey D&D games into the sophisticated, artistic games of theirs.  The nWoD book LITERALLY has the "roll playing/Roleplaying" (and clearly referring to D&D) in their GM section, and that was a book produced this decade!

Remember when 4e was announced and WW responded by offering D&D fans the chance to "graduate" to the more sophisticated Exalted?

And the issue with it is that its all such bullshit. I mean, Vampire isn't actually a more sophisticated RPG than D&D is either, not even a little bit; but at least they try to pretend a little more. Exalted is like watching a movie that is two hours of hardcore fucking, but with fifteen seconds of some cheesy art-pastiche and it was directed by a guy who went film school, so it gets on Bravo and self-styled intellectuals try to pretend its not porn while they masturbate furiously to it.

Its bullshit hypocrisy of the worst scale.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;388267Not just with the fans, no. In WW's products themselves, they routinely talk about how you have to educate the "unwashed masses" who are playing those stupid powergamey D&D games into the sophisticated, artistic games of theirs.  The nWoD book LITERALLY has the "roll playing/Roleplaying" (and clearly referring to D&D) in their GM section, and that was a book produced this decade!

Remember when 4e was announced and WW responded by offering D&D fans the chance to "graduate" to the more sophisticated Exalted?

And the issue with it is that its all such bullshit. I mean, Vampire isn't actually a more sophisticated RPG than D&D is either, not even a little bit; but at least they try to pretend a little more. Exalted is like watching a movie that is two hours of hardcore fucking, but with fifteen seconds of some cheesy art-pastiche and it was directed by a guy who went film school, so it gets on Bravo and self-styled intellectuals try to pretend its not porn while they masturbate furiously to it.

Its bullshit hypocrisy of the worst scale.

RPGPundit

Don't forget the intro to one of the Exalted books (can't recall if it's the 1e or 2e core book) that basically goes "anime is t3h awesome, fuck tolkien, and fuck D&D".

Exalted's pretensions to being "high brow" are pretty hard to take in the face of Camel Toe.
Exalted's pretensions to being for "storytellers" not "gamers" is pretty hardto take in the face of the actual mechanics.

White Wolf's bizarre combination of elitism and ludditism is actually pretty offensive. People who do "math" or know "science" aren't cool like they are. Sometimes they have good ideas, sometimes they have bad ideas. But either way, they are such incredible assholes about it that they are very easy to hate.

-Frank

Quote from: RPGPundit;388190Except that only the proponents of one of these two games go around saying that the other game is "Roll playing not role playing" while ironically playing one of the most powergamey and mechanically complicated games around.

RPGPundit

You are right. It is pretty horrible what the 3e/AD&D crowd says about those who play D&D 4e.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;388270Don't forget the intro to one of the Exalted books (can't recall if it's the 1e or 2e core book) that basically goes "anime is t3h awesome, fuck tolkien, and fuck D&D".

Well, I don't think it was that harsh.  In 2e, at least, it just lists inspirations neutrally.

Anywho, it is kind of ironic given that a lot of anime/modern Japanese fantasy was influenced by D&D (Slayers, Record of Lodoss War, Final Fantasy, etc, etc.).

I got the Free RPG Day offering for Exalted today, Under the Rose. I read the background - when did the Empress get back?!

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;388300I got the Free RPG Day offering for Exalted today, Under the Rose. I read the background - when did the Empress get back?!

Seanchai

Since they announced the Return of the Scarlet Empress campaign book way back.

It's optional metaplot, AFAIK.

Quote from: Peregrin;388301Since they announced the Return of the Scarlet Empress campaign book way back.

I remember that. I think what's confusing me is that this module has been released before Return.

Seanchai

It's sort of a "sneak peak."

From what I've read, this makes the "regular" Exalted metaplot look reasonable.  As someone on RPGnet put it, it's like they jumped the shark so high it went into orbit.