Quote from: Benoist;387173It's cool. It's Seanchai who says what Shaz did was "smart". Me, I call it a dickmove.

Agreed.  That is why I never make eye contact, especially on public transit.  Treat it like a moving prison exercise yard, and you will do just fine.  

Quote from: thedungeondelver;387169Why do 4e fans suck so much?  Why don't they want to grow the hobby?  Why are they so exclusionary?  IIIIIIIITS AAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL D&D, RIGHT?

'Cause theRPGsite and RPGnet represent the real-world, amirite?  

Hell, about half of the people I've gamed with during 4e playtests and whatnot were new gamers.  A lot of them continued playing D&D, whether 4e or an older edition.

I don't think any particular edition gives you the propensity to be an anti-social dick.  I think that's a problem with certain gamers regardless of game or edition.  I've met plenty of Game X devotees who I wanted to punch in the fucking face.

Quote from: Benoist;387161See the bolded passage? That's where Shaz starts being an asshole to him.

Again, being sarcastic is being an asshole? Really?

Quote from: Benoist;387161So don't start thinking that your case is some sort of generality. It's not.

No, it is. When you get frustrated, you start in with the language and personal attacks. Your sense of decorum is, apparently, situational...

Seanchai

Quote from: Cylonophile;387170I agree with you here, maybe shaz shouldn't have driven the guy off as a first option, I'd think that a few minutes spent feeling him out might have gotten shaz a new player.

Nope. The guy in question had no interest in Shaz or 4e. His interest lay in explaining Shaz's poor choices to him. That's it. It's not a hey-we're-both-gamers conversation or a what's-that-edition-of-D&D-like conversation. It's a 4e-sucks-and-you-shouldn't-be-playing-it conversation. Shaz didn't miss out on getting a new player - he missed out on hearing about why a game he likes is lame.

I know some of you might genuinely believe that Shaz missed an opportunity or did something wrong, but that's likely because you're the type of person who would approach a complete stranger in order to warn him or her about something he or she is enjoying.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;387204Again, being sarcastic is being an asshole? Really?

Seanchai

Yes, really, it is.

Quote from: Seanchai;387205The guy in question had no interest in Shaz or 4e. His interest lay in explaining Shaz's poor choices to him. That's it. It's not a hey-we're-both-gamers conversation or a what's-that-edition-of-D&D-like conversation. It's a 4e-sucks-and-you-shouldn't-be-playing-it conversation.

Seanchai

Except the guy never said that he thinks 4E sucks until much further into the conversation and after Shazbot was being a sarcastic dick to him for some time in that conversation.

I jokingly pick on socially dysfunctional fatbeards sometimes here.  But the truth of the matter is, I can find something to like in almost any fellow gamer.

When it comes right down to it, I'm going to try and be nice to any fellow gamer I meet until it because nearly impossible to do so.  

I'm a D&D nerd.  Precious few people in this world like tabletop RPGs.  We gotta stick together (not here, but in real life).

Quote from: Mistwell;387217I jokingly pick on socially dysfunctional fatbeards sometimes here.  But the truth of the matter is, I can find something to like in almost any fellow gamer.

When it comes right down to it, I'm going to try and be nice to any fellow gamer I meet until it because nearly impossible to do so.  

I'm a D&D nerd.  Precious few people in this world like tabletop RPGs.  We gotta stick together (not here, but in real life).

I agree.

Quote from: Mistwell;387217We gotta stick together (not here, but in real life).

Here, we get to tear into each other like wild dogs.  Kind of like Valhalla, we all awaken the next morning whole and uninjured.  

Even if you don't see eye to eye on which versions of D&D you like, just the fact that someone is a gamer at all means that you can potentially get together for other games. I have friends who play 4e D&D. I do not. We still play Junta and Settlers of Cataan and Shadowrun and Arkham Horror together.

Seriously man, what the hell? You don't have to like 4e D&D to think there are good ideas in it, you don't have to hate 4e D&D to think there are bad ideas in it. But most importantly of all, the hobby is bigger than whether or not you agree on one specific game. 4e D&D is not some sort of shibboleth where failure to provide the correct dogma with regards to it renders you mutant commie traitor scum. It's just one game of many. One with positives and negatives that are real and discussable.

-Frank