Ok, I keep hearing how Saga is the best game WotC made, it's the best d20 game, it's what 4e should have been, etc.  I hear it on the useless echo chamber boards as well as the good ones.

So what is the deal with Saga, what did they do mechanics-wise that makes it so awesome?

Quote from: CRKrueger;386254Ok, I keep hearing how Saga is the best game WotC made, it's the best d20 game, it's what 4e should have been, etc.  I hear it on the useless echo chamber boards as well as the good ones.

So what is the deal with Saga, what did they do mechanics-wise that makes it so awesome?

No dead levels.  Every level gives you SOMETHING (feat or talent or both).

Prestige classes don't require micro planning from character generation.

Skills are massively simplified.  You have untrained, trained and skill focus.  Untrained is just rolling an attribute, trained gives you +5 (and with some skills extra uses for the skill) and focus gives you +10.

Free multiclassing.  Need to pick up a level of Soldier?  Go ahead!  And since class abilities are all talents and feats and not tied to class level, you don't get horribly gimped by dipping around.

For me, it's not only the best d20 game, it's the best Star Wars game, winning both categories by a large margin.

Take this for whatever you feel it's worth...I own the game but I've not had the opportunity to run or play it.

Saga is a streamlined version of D20 Star Wars...and the core system is very similar to the one that 4E uses (minus class powers)

4E concepts that Saga introduced:

-skill system.
-1/2 character level as a level dependent modifier
-no more iterative attacks
-class balance...kinda (jedi is STILL better than everything else...but not by such a wide margin)
-attacks vs. static defenses (reflex, fortitude or will)
-second wind (self healing)
-encounter based abilities

People say that Saga is what 4E should have been (I'm in this camp, myself) because it is a more polished and cohesive version of 3rd edition D&D (ymmv) that still clings to a more traditional style of gameplay.

On a side note, I've seen a couple fantasy conversions...one of which is pretty decent.

The annoying thing is that they both neglected to convert the classic D&D spell list into saga rules. Which sucks because Saga uses a cool system for Force Powers.

I think its the best incarnation of D20 I saw WOTC put out. Although Coc D20 might run a close second.

As said: No Dead level. Fairly solid use of the mechanics that are there. My only complaint that I feel Jedi were overpowered (then again I see the later movies "prequels" as Rebel propaganda to drum up strength for their side.)
 
There were some strange moments--but I don't own, and have not run it--only played it.

Quote from: Shazbot79;386260Take this for whatever you feel it's worth...I own the game but I've not had the opportunity to run or play it.

Saga is a streamlined version of D20 Star Wars...and the core system is very similar to the one that 4E uses (minus class powers)

4E concepts that Saga introduced:

-skill system.
-1/2 character level as a level dependent modifier
-no more iterative attacks
-class balance...kinda (jedi is STILL better than everything else...but not by such a wide margin)
-attacks vs. static defenses (reflex, fortitude or will)
-second wind (self healing)
-encounter based abilities

People say that Saga is what 4E should have been (I'm in this camp, myself) because it is a more polished and cohesive version of 3rd edition D&D (ymmv) that still clings to a more traditional style of gameplay.

I like that list.

Quote from: CRKrueger;386254Ok, I keep hearing how Saga is the best game WotC made, it's the best d20 game, it's what 4e should have been, etc.  I hear it on the useless echo chamber boards as well as the good ones.

So what is the deal with Saga, what did they do mechanics-wise that makes it so awesome?

I don't think that's what 4e should have been. When talking about Saga while not knowing at all about any 4e around the corner, I kept saying to whoever wanted to hear the way Saga handles the Star Wars universe would not necessarily work with D&D. I had no idea this was a test run for 4e at the time.

Now, that said. Star Wars Saga is indeed great once you embrace the abstract nature of the game system and just roll with it on an intuitive level. It's great, and in some respects, even better than d6. It comes down to what you prefer as a role playing: abstract, intuitive yet detailed? Star Wars Saga. Simpler, intuitive and unified? D6 Star Wars.

The same way, on a nitpicky standpoint, people won't stand "levels" in the Star Wars universe for instance. That's fine. It's a question of expectations.

For me, personally? Saga's a good game.

Saga's fine, except for d20's level-based class system, and that's got no epic level rules...
It's all capped at level 20.

Sadlily it's discontinued...

The Force system actually models what we see in all six movies pretty well.

You can create a Force User that isn't a Jedi at all.

Multiclassing is seamless and simple.

The condition track is a nifty addition to the Hit Point system.

All kinds of other good stuff mentioned already.

PLUS: It ISN'T RCR or original d20 Star Wars, both of which suck the sweat from a dead man's balls.

Quote from: Phantom Black;386321Sadlily it's discontinued...

The corebook is still readily available. With that and wookiepedia, plus a galaxy full of non-gaming Star Wars source materials, you would have almost everything you need. Everything else would be frosting on a good cake.

I know I'm going to be keeping the game alive, no matter what WotC does.

Quote from: Shazbot79;386261On a side note, I've seen a couple fantasy conversions...one of which is pretty decent.

I don't suppose you have links? I know about Sword and Sorcery Saga but haven't found others.  I've been considering using saga as a framework for an iteration of Iron Heroes for myself.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;386324I don't suppose you have links? I know about Sword and Sorcery Saga but haven't found others.  I've been considering using saga as a framework for an iteration of Iron Heroes for myself.

Now that I'd like to see.

I haven't played it myself, but I've skimmed the rules and it looks nice. A good friend is an uber-gamer and super old school. HE tells me it's pretty amazing and he probably wouldn't be so militantly anti-4E if it had been more like Saga.

One thing that piqued my interest was how all the source books stack on top of the core rules. Unlike in 4E where i have to buy the PHB, the PHB 2,  . . .the PHB 47, just to play a certain race or class. Everything you need to play appears to be right there in the core book, and (as already noted) you can mix and match from the various classes at will.

I should buy my own copy . . .

You lousy sonsabitches, you were supposed to say it wasn't any good, now I'll have to hit the FLGS.

Quote from: CRKrueger;386333You lousy sonsabitches, you were supposed to say it wasn't any good, now I'll have to hit the FLGS.

Hey, *I* didn't want to like it either...but here we are, and now I have the whole set.