Noticed and posted, Koltar.

Just to add, one of the first very first characters I ever played, was a female.  I'd just joined a roleplaying club out of curiosity and the GM there casually handed me a pre-gen of a female wizard and that was what I played.  It was only years later I discovered that some people would might have had a problem with that. I don't know, maybe having gotten into rolepalying once I was alreayd an adult made a differnce as well, but the gender issue never phased me.

For the record, if anyone still has the 1st edtion of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, my character was the pregenerated character called Wanda that came with the adventure at the back of the book. She went on the play the Shadows over Bogenhaven adventure and I think she was one of the few who actually survived.

Quote from: Soylent Green;383810That was a good post AS. I don't necessarily feel the same way, but I can respect your point of view and it rings a lot more true than the "men don't know how to play women well enough" argument, which given the standard of acting in your average roleplaying games seems a odd thing to get hung up about.

Thanks. And I'm not saying my point of view is the right one. It just is what it is. I think it's along the lines of your opinion on profanity.

As far as dudes not being able to RP women or the other way around -I always find that a silly argument to make. I don't know what life for a Jedi or Ranger is like, but I can fake it in a game. Gender's basically the same that way.

And yeah, I've yet to meet a single RPer who could act in any manner that i would recognize as "good". If I can do a horrible Scotish accent for my dwarf, why can't I totally botch it at a female dwarf.

Quote from: Koltar;383819Soylent - you might like the new thread I started.

Atomic Scotsman (sort of ) and others.....
I might be called overweight and I do sport a beard - however I doubt I fall iunto the 'fatbeard' category.

I too sport a beard and more than a couple extra pounds.

I meant "generic socially awkward, hygienically challenged, horrible RPG guy" stereotype when I used the term Fatbeard earlier.

I hope you didn't think I meant you or anyone specifically!?!  :eek:

See, guys? I knew this was worth talking about. Again.

Quote from: Benoist;383891See, guys? I knew this was worth talking about. Again.

Hehe, fair point. :-)

Quote from: Atomic Scotsman;383802Whereas a Player makes a conscious choice to gender bend. There's a part of me that always questions their motives in doing so.

If anyone's seen DORKNESS RISING, one of the guys plays a woman, and it's purely because he gets an adolescent quasi-sexual kick out of it.

Here in the big echo chamber of the Internet we discuss RPGs in fairly intellectual and academic manner. (Some times.) Some folks want to really explore the opposite gender as a creative exercise. But if I had to make a list out of all the guys I've ever RPed with, I would say that 98% of them would most likely be doing it because it fulfilled some quasi-sexual fantasy or so they could nudge me every five minutes and say "I've got tits."

Thanks - that clarifies a lot.  I think my experience may differ, but I also think my criteria may be different.  Honestly, I think that most PCs are adolescent fantasies of one sort or another.  For example, if a male player is playing a male double-oh agent in the James Bond 007 RPG, chances are that they're getting a kick out of it that has some quasi-sexual side - i.e. being a sexy secret agent who  can get Pussy Galore.  The same goes for being a superhero in a skintight spandex suit, and many others.  I don't think that's inherently a creepy thing.  If I go out with my friends to a party, and we dress up and act sexy there, that's not inherently creepy (though obviously there can be creepy behavior at a party).  

Still, while I haven't seen Dorkness Rising, I'd certainly agree that a man playing a female character purely for a sexual kick is creepy - I think mainly because I would interpret it as treating women purely as sex objects instead of as real people.  I just don't find that this is the case for anywhere close to 98% of cross-gender play I've seen.  In my experience, it would be more like 20% or less.  Some of it might be our different experiences, but I also suspect that I wouldn't be bothered by the same thing that bothers you.  

Quote from: Atomic Scotsman;383802Ugly lady playing a hot chick? I'm an ugly dude who plays the dashing hero sometimes -that's what it's all about, right? But if you mean a woman playing a man, that tends to bother me a little less. Not from some homophobic angle -I know and love a fair number of gay men and women. That's never been an issue for me.

But I find myself, probably incorrectly, less likely to assume the worst of a female Player. In the same regard I feel like I'm less likely to find tentacle hentai etc. on their computers.

Now, objectively, I know that this is an oversimplification of what people are, but in my own anecdotal experience this is what I've seen.

Well, it's interesting.  In my RPG experience, the mixed-gender groups have had more racy / sexual material than boys-only groups.  (By definition, I've never been in girl-only groups.)  In American culture, women are less likely to collect pornographic pictures, but they are more likely to (say) talk in detail about sex among each other or read racy romantic novels than men.  

So, I think women players are at least as likely as men to get a quasi-sexual kick out of playing a sexy character (of either gender).  I don't think that necessarily makes a player creepy, though.

Quote from: jhkim;383909Honestly, I think that most PCs are adolescent fantasies of one sort or another.  For example, if a male player is playing a male double-oh agent in the James Bond 007 RPG, chances are that they're getting a kick out of it that has some quasi-sexual side - i.e. being a sexy secret agent who  can get Pussy Galore.  The same goes for being a superhero in a skintight spandex suit, and many others.

That's interesting, and I'd agree with you on this.

If there is any difference at all, I'd say its the difference between playing a sexy character as part of a larger power fantasy, as opposed to playing a character strictly from an erotic point of view. To take the superhero example, When I've played in supers games the spandex and physical perfection of the character is sort of secondary to the cool factor of , "I can throw buses at people's heads", part of it.

Quote from: jhkim;383909In my RPG experience, the mixed-gender groups have had more racy / sexual material than boys-only groups.  (By definition, I've never been in girl-only groups.)  In American culture, women are less likely to collect pornographic pictures, but they are more likely to (say) talk in detail about sex among each other or read racy romantic novels than men.  

So, I think women players are at least as likely as men to get a quasi-sexual kick out of playing a sexy character (of either gender).  I don't think that necessarily makes a player creepy, though.

I've only played in one mixed gender group, and that was with my wife and another gamer's wife. Its was straight up D&D of the traditional dungeon crawl variety, so it stayed pretty PG-rated. Not because of any personal inhibitions but just because of the tone of the game.

I don't think women are any less sexual, or likely to be more sexually reserved.  But, with the women I've known, they are less likely to be uh . . .what's the word? Superficial about it, maybe? Less objectifying? I can't quite put my finger on it.

To put it into porn terms, pornography produced by/for women is no less explicit or even raunchy, but porn for/by men often has an element of humiliation or degradation to it.

I tend to view gender-bending in RPGs through a similar kind of filter. Women are innocent until proven guilty, whereas men are assumed guilty until proven otherwise.

That's not fair, I know. But it is how my brain is wired to interpret these things. And that's a result of my own gaming experience. Had my experiences been different, I'd no doubt view this in a different light.

There's also a kind of ownership issue here. Much like how my black friends can use the N-word all they want, but if I were to call someone a N****r I'd have to be damn careful about the context and delivery of the word.

I find that the playing of opposite gender PCs tends to push me out of my comfort zone, but I consider that my own problem.

Quote from: jrients;384049I find that the playing of opposite gender PCs tends to push me out of my comfort zone, but I consider that my own problem.

I can see that as being both a positive and a negative.

What I want out of a game these days is a lot of action and adventure. I want to laugh a lot, and I want to take a break from my crazy work schedule and just blow off steam.

For example. in our current Deadlands game we're playing a bunch of desperate outlaws. But because I want to goof around and laugh I made my guy a Chinese immigrant -a former railroad worker turned gun slinger. He's got the Outsider Hindrance and can barely speak English (d4 skill).

I spent most of our first session doing my best James Hong and Randall Duk Kim impersonations, and eventually degrading into a terrible Short Round as the night wore on and I got tired. I still played the amoral outlaw, but not in a very serious manner.

So leaving my comfort zone is not what I want. I do that all day long.

But, if you approach RPGs from the angle of someone looking for a dramatic challenge then this could be an excellent way of getting that.

Alright. Seventh page of the thread: my turn.

I never had any problem with people playing the opposite gender. I generally play with people who play characters with matching genders, and I don't think that's a special experience in this regard.

I know a guy who ONLY plays women. It's his "schtick". And to his credit, the guy's amazing at it. He's not gay, he's not even effeminate in real life. He just has this gift of making his characters seem genuine. Cool.

Me? I used to suck at it. So I wouldn't play women. But then, I started to play a few. I think my most recent character was Maeve, an Aasimar Paladin in 3rd ed D&D. I had a good time playing her. It's still not my normal MO, but now I'll think about it as a viable possibility when considering my character options. Now, I think I'm decent at it. Not stellar, mind you, but it's like Kyle said: it's not a freaking audition, so you just need to have a good time with it. If everyone's enjoying the game, all's good.

For some reason I tend to get to play females at Cons.

Usually the GM has a bunch of premade characters and all theplayers are blokes but a couple of the PCs are female I seem to be the guy that gets one of those.

Aside from that I think maybe I have done it once in 30 years (not GMing)

How good am I? I think I am good with writing. I am pretty pleased with the women I have played in my Current Amber PBM for example (the players can feel free to post how they disagree ). In the flesh who knows? Hey I played a game of Clash's at Gen Con back in 2008. I played a female New York Journalist on some planet somewhere off in Cold Space. So he'd know. I reckon about a 6 out of ten.

Quote from: Atomic Scotsman;384064What I want out of a game these days is a lot of action and adventure. I want to laugh a lot, and I want to take a break from my crazy work schedule and just blow off steam.

For example. in our current Deadlands game we're playing a bunch of desperate outlaws. But because I want to goof around and laugh I made my guy a Chinese immigrant -a former railroad worker turned gun slinger. He's got the Outsider Hindrance and can barely speak English (d4 skill).

I spent most of our first session doing my best James Hong and Randall Duk Kim impersonations, and eventually degrading into a terrible Short Round as the night wore on and I got tired. I still played the amoral outlaw, but not in a very serious manner.

So leaving my comfort zone is not what I want. I do that all day long.

But, if you approach RPGs from the angle of someone looking for a dramatic challenge then this could be an excellent way of getting that.

Well, given that it's uncomfortable for you, sure.  No one is suggesting that it should be required.  

But cross-gender play is also great for people who want a lot of action and adventure and just wants to blow off steam - as long as they're comfortable with it.  As an extreme example, I've GMed Macho Women With Guns a few times for great fun, including many male players.  Paul Tevis played one run and commented: "It was quite tactical and very tongue in cheek. I had a good time with Sister Madison "Mad" Maxine, a Renegade Nun on Wheels. With our trusty H&K G-11's we were able to put a stop to the nefarious plots of the Dip Ones and their unearthly masters, Isaac Azathoth and Harlan Nyarlathison."  
That's an extreme example, but it's also easy without going to extremes.  I played a Slayer in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer campaign, a surly sarcastic web designer who had lots of comedic moments and kicked plenty of ass.

Quote from: jhkim;384098Well, given that it's uncomfortable for you, sure.  No one is suggesting that it should be required.  

But cross-gender play is also great for people who want a lot of action and adventure and just wants to blow off steam - as long as they're comfortable with it.

Agreed.