I read some novels recently where the "bad guys" were nothing but bugs, literally, who could use technology and build starships. They were an enemy that could not be reasoned with, could not be negotiated with, hell they could not even be SPOKEN with as they exists ad a collective intelligence and were incapable of communicating with anything outside their own race.

(Hell, even the creatures in "Aliens" were capable of more reason than the bugs in the books I just read. When ripley leveled the gun at their eggs the queen ordered the warriors to back down and withdraw, the bugs in these books weren't even capable of that level of reason and "negotiation" with another creature...)

They looked like big bugs and were called 'the bugs".

 I'd like to nominate "Bugs" as a RPG term to represent an enemy that cannot be reasoned with or even communicated with and simply must be exterminated, no two ways about it.

As I typed this a question occurred to me: When making the OpFors in your RPGs do you use bugs, or do you prefer intelligent enemies who can at least to some degree be reasoned with if the players want to try diplomacy or something like it?

I'd say I do both on occasion. Normally I hate the "mindless" enemy and find such boring. But every now and there there are simply creatures you cannot reason with and must simply destroy. At least that's how I see it, god knows I've seen enough humans who were incapable of reason...

But back on the origiinal topic, I'd say that an enemy is something you can at least communicate with to some degree. Hell, even during ww2 we had communication with the nazis, and arranged things like POW letters to and from home, red cross inspections, etc. You could at least communicate with even the nazis.

A "bug" isn't capable of any form of communication or reason whatsoever.

So, for example, after encountering a new species and having some combats with them over time, the PCs can finally ask the GM "Are these things responding in any way that denotes the possibility of reason or not?" and the GM can say "They seem to be Bugs."

Zombies...

Sometimes I play orcs like that.

Quote from: Doom;383176Sometimes I play orcs like that.

Well, can't even orcs be reasoned with to a degree in D&D?

I guess it depends on the setting the orcs are in.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;383175Zombies...

Well, yeah.

I'd say that bugs could co ordinate attacks and even devise strategies, though. Zombies are more like mindless individuals in a horde.

Bugs might even be able to create and use weapons, vehicles, etc. Zombies just lurch in and attack with their hands and teeth.

Some important differences there. Zombies are mindless,  bugs might actually be able to think,  plan, devise, use tactics and strategy, etc.

Quote from: Cylonophile;383178Zombies are mindless,  bugs might actually be able to think,  plan, devise, use tactics and strategy, etc.

Meet Bub.

Quote from: The Shaman;383186Meet Bub.

The hero of Hunger: Zombies Must Feed.

http://www.pigames.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=184

Meh, I never went in for those later NOTLD movies. Zombies learning to use guns, have feelings for people, etc just doesn't do it. Zombies are the walking dead who mindlessly seek to eat the flesh of the living. The retconned types that started acting more human just sort of make you want to yell [sam kinnison mode] "Hey, dead asshole! While you're remembering how to use guns and stuff like that how about remembering that murder and cannibalism are generally regarded as unacceptable behavior?!?!"[[sam kinnison mode]

Quote from: Cylonophile;383480"Hey, dead asshole! While you're remembering how to use guns and stuff like that how about remembering that murder and cannibalism are generally regarded as unacceptable behavior?!?!"[[sam kinnison mode]

Living humans haven't figured that out yet (at least the murder part), why should the dead ones be any different?

Quote from: Cylonophile;383174I read some novels recently where the "bad guys" were nothing but bugs, literally, who could use technology and build starships. They were an enemy that could not be reasoned with, could not be negotiated with, hell they could not even be SPOKEN with as they exists ad a collective intelligence and were incapable of communicating with anything outside their own race.

I find it fairly difficult to imagine, really, an alien race that's impossible to communicate with. I know its been done in SF before (the first novel the comes to mind for me is "Second Genesis", which has dragonfly-based aliens who are literally unable to see humans until they learn to categorize them as "food") but I think its hard to do "bugs" believably -at least for aliens, since if something can build technology that suggests something resembling self-awareness and so ability to perceive other things as having awareness.

Its easy to see for Machine intelligences now...they can have quite sophisticated programming and still be unable to communicate.

Never cared for "bugs" in my games. I avoid zombie games as well. Any thinking species in my games can be communicated with on some level.

-clash

It's been over a decade, but in The Ring of Charon, if I recall the aliens had been created by another species long lost but were still self propagating and moving around the galaxy.  What made them dangerous wasn't their intelligence, it was that they could use a powerful energy source.  I wouldn't like an enemy like this very often but they can be daunting and mysterious, going about their tasks for unknown reasons, never showing pity or taking prisoners as their concept of war is totally different.
 
Bugs could have a tech of sorts without being particularly intelligent and may not have complex communication.  For example, suppose that you had ants as big as your fist whose bodies were natural lasers.  (Dude, it's just fantasy, go with it).  The more that are lined up, the strong the laser is.  Ants can make bridges from their bodies and designate individuals to turn into food storage devices, I'm sure they could figure out how to line up.  Now suppose that these ants cut into cliffs to make homes and find minerals necessary for their metabolism.  A city wall  would be just another cliff to them and houses would be large hollow rocks.  There would be now communicating with them if they laid seige to a town and went about trying to level it and consume it according to their instincts.  Lasers that can cut rock and also cut through people who get in the way.

Quote from: flyingmice;383515Never cared for "bugs" in my games. I avoid zombie games as well. Any thinking species in my games can be communicated with on some level.

-clash

Along the lines of

Redshirt:
"Hello, nice guys in a wheelchair-like metal casing. Peace and a warm Welcome to Earth!"

Alien: "Exterminate, annihilate, destroy!"

Quote from: CRKrueger;383493Living humans haven't figured that out yet (at least the murder part), why should the dead ones be any different?

well, the majority of humans (At least in the civilized world) apparently have figured it out given the fact most people don't murder anyone in their lives.