With it being considered that the 4th iteration of DND no longer resembles in anyway its 1st edition namesake, let alone being a role-playing, but instead a computer game simulator, is it now fair to refer to DND as a dead game, with no biological future?

Has the mantle finally been passed (to whom I've no idea), and the legacy of RPG has passed?

From what I've seen 4.5 is a last token effort from WOTC before they can it completely.

Quote from: Lawbag;379800Has the mantle finally been passed (to whom I've no idea), and the legacy of RPG has passed?

Hard to say.  In the tabletop pen-and-paper world, some possible pretenders to the throne could be:  Pathfinder, Mongoose, Green Ronin, etc ...

If not, the "rpg" legacy will live on in video games like World of Warcraft, Dragon Age, etc ...

WotC canning the brand won't be the end of D&D, the game.

WotC is irrelevant to Gygax & Arneson's game, now. It will survive, no matter what.

Quote from: Benoist;379804WotC canning the brand won't be the end of D&D, the game.

WotC is irrelevant to Gygax & Arneson's game, now. It will survive, no matter what.

Even were WotC to discontinue developement of D&D (I don't think this is likely in the short term), I don't see Hasbro making that IP available at a cost that would be attractive to other publishing companies.

Are you suggesting rather, that there is enough extant material for people to enjoy decades to come?  I agree with that position.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;379827Even were WotC to discontinue developement of D&D (I don't think this is likely in the short term), I don't see Hasbro making that IP available at a cost that would be attractive to other publishing companies.

The IP doesn't matter. The games are now available as retroclones, without use of WotC's IP. The core experience of the game is essentially out of their hands now, thanks to the OGL, but for a few nouns, trademarks and strict copyright/likenesses.

Greyhawk is copyrighted? Let's call it Dunfalcon, or Blackbirdy or The Free City of Gagyx. Zagyg Yragerne? Let's call him the Mad Archmage, the Crazy Spellslinger, whatever. And so on, so forth. Names are just names, in the end. Avoiding specific likenesses is not much of a big deal either.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;379827Are you suggesting rather, that there is enough extant material for people to enjoy decades to come?  I agree with that position.

That too.

Quote from: Benoist;379833The IP doesn't matter. The games are now available as retroclones, without use of WotC's IP. The core experience of the game is essentially out of their hands now, thanks to the OGL, but for a few nouns, trademarks and strict copyright/likenesses.

Greyhawk is copyrighted? Let's call it Dunfalcon, or Blackbirdy or The Free City of Gagyx. Zagyg Yragerne? Let's call him the Mad Archmage, the Crazy Spellslinger, whatever. And so on, so forth. Names are just names, in the end. Avoiding specific likenesses is not much of a big deal either.


That too.

I don't wholly agree with your position, I think the brand needs to survive as a growing property even if most of its products are no longer aimed at me.  Its still the most recognizable name in the RPG business and I like to hope that folks starting out with it will be drawn to other games as well.  I'd be pleased, though, to see someone like Paizo step up and fill WotC shoes in the event of a void, however.

Quote from: Lawbag;379800With it being considered that the 4th iteration of DND no longer resembles in anyway its 1st edition namesake, let alone being a role-playing, but instead a computer game simulator, is it now fair to refer to DND as a dead game, with no biological future?

The ironic thing is that the 4e would make for a better computer rpg than previous versions allowed (vancian magic was really a hassle with computer games imo) and yet we have no 4e D&D computer game.  Hasbro really dropped the ball on this.  D&D used to be a really valuable ip for making computer games.

Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;379840I don't wholly agree with your position, I think the brand needs to survive as a growing property even if most of its products are no longer aimed at me.  Its still the most recognizable name in the RPG business and I like to hope that folks starting out with it will be drawn to other games as well.  I'd be pleased, though, to see someone like Paizo step up and fill WotC shoes in the event of a void, however.

I think there are better ways to get introduced to roleplaying games, and generally prefer quality over quantity.

Now, I won't challenge the fact that WotC in effect *is* a huge a part of the RPG market, and that WotC tanking might have some nasty effect on the "industry".

That's not what I was talking about though. I was talking about the fact that the D&D game itself, not the brand or name, but the game, will survive no matter what. And it will.

*Gasp!* You mean the RPG world *Might* be better if WotC collapsed? Y'know, like one of the early questions I asked on here and got a bunch of nay-say on?

Say it ain't so!

"Tout vient à point pour qui sait attendre".

All things come to those who wait, in other words.
Though again, I was talking about the game itself, not the hobby, nor the "industry".

Yes, it has an 'endgame' - for people top buy their books and for WotC to stay in business.
 To them, thats the only endgame that really matters.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Lawbag;379800With it being considered that the 4th iteration of DND no longer resembles in anyway its 1st edition namesake, let alone being a role-playing, but instead a computer game simulator, is it now fair to refer to DND as a dead game, with no biological future?

Has the mantle finally been passed (to whom I've no idea), and the legacy of RPG has passed?

From what I've seen 4.5 is a last token effort from WOTC before they can it completely.

I like your troll.  You hit on the major "poke-fans-with-a-stick" topics without overly dwelling on them, and in short succinct sentences.  You opted to leave out reference to WOW, and the word emulation, and the phrase "roll-play", but still made some vague reference to those concepts.  And you brought in the new "poke-fans-with-a-stick" topic of "4.5", so kudos for being up to date on your troll topics.  Overall, high scores all around for your trolling.  You are indeed a skilled master.

Alas, you posted it on the wrong forum, as your only takers will be fellow believers on the topic.  You'd get a lot more out of it if you posted this on EnWorld, CircvsMaximvs, WOTC, or RPG.net.  Perhaps you were using this forum as a test to see if you could tweak the message to get better impact? If so, no, I think you got it down well.  Go for it.  Just let us know where you post it, so we can watch the destruction from afar.

Gee whiz, dude, that's a bit much, eh?

Remember, there was a time when you could talk about the latest edition of D&D on any forum, but, now there, are only like 2, maybe, forums where talking positive about 4e (or even calling it uncompromisingly D&D) doesn't just cause a flame war.

That's a hint that something's up, honest.

I'm not convinced D&D is dead, however. Consider Highlander 2, so horrific that they simply ignored it when it was time to make Highlander 3. It's quite possible the same thing will happen for D&D.

Quote from: Doom;380006I'm not convinced D&D is dead, however. Consider Highlander 2, so horrific that they simply ignored it when it was time to make Highlander 3. It's quite possible the same thing will happen for D&D.

Heh.  4E D&D in the future becoming an "edition which is not to be mentioned in polite company"?  

Quote from: Mistwell;380002I like your troll.  You hit on the major "poke-fans-with-a-stick" topics without overly dwelling on them, and in short succinct sentences.  You opted to leave out reference to WOW, and the word emulation, and the phrase "roll-play", but still made some vague reference to those concepts.  And you brought in the new "poke-fans-with-a-stick" topic of "4.5", so kudos for being up to date on your troll topics.  Overall, high scores all around for your trolling.  You are indeed a skilled master.

Alas, you posted it on the wrong forum, as your only takers will be fellow believers on the topic.  You'd get a lot more out of it if you posted this on EnWorld, CircvsMaximvs, WOTC, or RPG.net.  Perhaps you were using this forum as a test to see if you could tweak the message to get better impact? If so, no, I think you got it down well.  Go for it.  Just let us know where you post it, so we can watch the destruction from afar.

Get all butthurt much?