I've played characters who might have tossed themselves on a grenade... and I'd have been very annoyed if a GM let them live through it.
It bugs me when my character does a stupid or heroic thing and gets wacked and the GM or players start digging into the rules to find a way for him to survive. It negates all the joy of playing a stupid or heroic character for me.

Sure, a setting like Star Wars has its own 'reality'... but just because there are light sabers and psychic powers doesn't mean it follows that everyone is indestructible... no more than it follows that the sky is full of magic pandas.

I don't get any joy out of playing in masturbatory wish-fulfillment games where no consequences apply because my character is 'the hero'.

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;359830The falling on a grenade after counting hitpoints thing is just as stupid as having to unload a couple of clips into your mouth in order kill yourself.

Dude.  I knew a guy who tried to blow his brains out, but the bullet passed through the soft tissue in the roof of his mouth and lodged in the bone behind his ear.  No lie. His available HP clearly exceeded the gun's listed damage.

!i!

Quote from: Simlasa;359831It bugs me when my character does a stupid or heroic thing and gets wacked and the GM or players start digging into the rules to find a way for him to survive. It negates all the joy of playing a stupid or heroic character for me.

In this case, the player wanted the character to live.

Quote from: Simlasa;359831Sure, a setting like Star Wars has its own 'reality'... but just because there are light sabers and psychic powers doesn't mean it follows that everyone is indestructible...

People fifty years ago could fall on a grenade and live. Thus falling on a grenade in a fantastic setting with advanced medical science and equipment does not equal indestructibility.

Seanchai

Quote from: Ian Absentia;359813I'm saying that a person in real life can't see the damage range printed on the side of a grenade, compare it against his current HP total, and come to an objective and concrete conclusion that he can smother the grenade with his body and carry on adventuring.

A real person can't come to an objective, concrete decision, but why is that required? They do come to more subjective and less concrete conclusions that turn out to be correct all the time. Basically, you're saying that people in real life can't be competent and so imaginary people shouldn't be either. That's dumb.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;359890...all the time.

You're arguing an absurdity, apparently for the sake of argument alone.  This no longer amuses me.

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;359895You're arguing an absurdity, apparently for the sake of argument alone.  This no longer amuses me.

I don't mean "all the time" as in every decision is correct, but that it's a frequent occurrence. People making correct guesses isn't some rarity.

The computer programmer uses her knowledge and experience to correctly guess what's wrong with the program. The teacher uses his experience to correctly guess that a student is Dyslexic. A soldier uses his experience to guess that a ruined wall will provide sufficient cover. None of them have actual numbers such as DCs, but they're able to come to the correct conclusion.

The irony is that saying a Star Wars character couldn't know whether or not a grenade would be potentially fatal is not roleplaying. It's roleplaying's opposite, whatever that may be.

Seanchai

Anyone, either in the real world or a fictional world, who assumes or surmises that falling on a grenade is not going to be instantly fatal is fatally foolish and is certainly not making any kind of intelligent or informed decision.

See, here's the disconnect I'm getting from you.  You're discussing calculated risk, but what Jeff was referring to was this:

Quote from: jeff37923;359635Then the Player said, "Yeah, I have enough hit points that I'll be able to take the maximum blast damage with no problem".

Not calculated risk, but a calculated absence of risk.  From an explosive.  Smothered with his stomach.  No mention of the use of armor, or shielding, or Force powers.  Just a calculated comparison of HPs.  I don't know how many ways I can state this, but that is a sterling example of a system tempting a player to do something that a character would not -- at least not for the same reasons.  If you're really okay with that, then fantastic.

QuoteThe irony is that saying a Star Wars character couldn't know whether or not a grenade would be potentially fatal is not roleplaying.

Ironic, perhaps, because no one has made that claim. A grenade that would shred a character at a lower level, loses its lethality against characters at higher levels.  Why?  Because a character's abdominal muscles have become intrinsically tough enough to withstand explosives, unshielded, at point-blank range? It's the old "What, exactly, do HPs represent?" question, and, again, it's an example of a system that tempts players to actions that their characters should reasonably avoid.

!i!

Quote from: Drohem;359926Anyone, either in the real world or a fictional world, who assumes or surmises that falling on a grenade is not going to be instantly fatal is fatally foolish and is certainly not making any kind of intelligent or informed decision.

I find your lack of faith...disturbing.

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;359930I find your lack of faith...disturbing.

!i!

I guess if I was born to a virgin and had mitaclorians for blood, then I would unequivocally jump onto a grenade with a smile on face and a flash off my sterling white teeth.

Hey, wait a second. Was this grenade just, you know, there? Or was there a fight going on?

Quote from: Thanlis;359937Hey, wait a second. Was this grenade just, you know, there? Or was there a fight going on?

There was a firefight going on and the the PCs had run down a hallway with a locked door. A stormtrooper had thrown the grenade around a corner and down the hallway at the PCs while they tried to Disable Device the door.

Why? Do you think the grenade just materialized out of thin air? Not trying to be a dick, but that question just seems weird.

I think he's asking if there was any particular reason to believe that the timer/delay mechanism had been activated.

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;359945I think he's asking if there was any particular reason to believe that the timer/delay mechanism had been activated.

!i!

Ah, my bad.  

Quick question: If the player had not jumped on the grenade, would everyone have been killed, or only taken the listed damage?