"Hit" Points: A crutch for characters who don't know when to go down?

DevP · December 27, 2009, 12:11:23 AM

ha ha link bait

But actually: do you find there are some games where you don't want the system to mediate character survival through a mechanic? Do you ever come to a point where you would will your character into a death (aside from whatever mechanics are there)? Do you ever declare character death to be (mostly) off the table or player-determined?

I expect the answers above to be "no" for most people in most situations, but I'm curious about any interesting exceptions.

ggroy · December 27, 2009, 01:10:29 AM

In 1E AD&D, a houserule we used for death was when a player's hit points reached negative constitution. Zero hit points usually rendered the player unconscious.

In 4E D&D so far, the houserule we've been using for automatic death is when a player's hit points reaches negative bloodied before being healed or rolling for death.

Insufficient Metal · December 27, 2009, 01:16:37 AM

I've both run and played in games where that's happened. Often a player just gets bored with a character and / or wants a memorable or heroic end. Usually it involves a talk ahead of time with the gamemaster and the next time an opportunity comes up for a heroic last stand or ultimate sacrifice, either some rolls get fudged or someone just dies "off-screen."

Our group isn't very old-school at all, so occasionally ignoring mechanics in favor of a satisfying story works for us.

ggroy · December 27, 2009, 01:32:46 AM

Quote from: ticopelp;351593I've both run and played in games where that's happened. Often a player just gets bored with a character and / or wants a memorable or heroic end. Usually it involves a talk ahead of time with the gamemaster and the next time an opportunity comes up for a heroic last stand or ultimate sacrifice, either some rolls get fudged or someone just dies "off-screen."

I've done this in conjunction with the DM or a player. One way of doing this is to present something which looks like a "faustian bargain" or a "deal with the devil" to the bored player, where they "sacrifice" their character in an "appearance" of furthering a particular plotline.

Another time we did this in a game where the DM was really boring and who was completely irreconcilable and uncompromising. So how we ended the game abruptly was all the players decided in advanced, to suddenly fight one another to the death in a battle royale. The last player standing committed suicide in a semi-ritualistic manner. The DM was obviously unimpressed.

Edsan · December 27, 2009, 02:07:30 AM

Quote from: ticopelp;351593Our group isn't very old-school at all, so occasionally ignoring mechanics in favor of a satisfying story works for us.

Emphasis mine.

Actually, you pretty much got one of the defining components of "Old School" right there: rules are not written in stone, they are rulings to be used, or not, as one sees fit. What matters is the enjoyment one derives from the game, not if the Rulez(tm) are being blindly followed and abided.

Seems like your group is very old-school after all, or at least much more than you assumed.

David R · December 27, 2009, 04:05:03 AM

Charaters in my games have always known when to go down. Not that I encourage that type of play....

Regards,
David R

Insufficient Metal · December 27, 2009, 03:37:05 PM

Quote from: Edsan;351596Actually, you pretty much got one of the defining components of "Old School" right there: rules are not written in stone, they are rulings to be used, or not, as one sees fit. What matters is the enjoyment one derives from the game, not if the Rulez(tm) are being blindly followed and abided.

Seems like your group is very old-school after all, or at least much more than you assumed.

Cool. I never thought about it that way.

The Shaman · December 27, 2009, 03:45:05 PM

Quote from: David R;351607Charaters in my games have always known when to go down. Not that I encourage that type of play....

Ya gotta do whatch gotta do.

1of3 · December 27, 2009, 05:42:23 PM

I know and like a few games that do not have a rule for dying. "Capes!" does not even have a rule for dead, and I love that game.

Quote from: ggroy;351592In 4E D&D so far, the houserule we've been using for automatic death is when a player's hit points reaches negative bloodied before being healed or rolling for death.

That's the official rule. Characters die when they fail 3 Death Saves or reach negative Bloodied.

In our 4e game a player wanted her character to die, to bring her back as a Revenant. Does that count?

jgants · December 27, 2009, 09:21:38 PM

For all the inelegence of hit points, I have to admit that as a quick and functional game mechanic nothing beats HP for me. Other systems just end up being too unwieldy or too handwavy for me.

As for character death, I never take that off the table as GM. To make the PCs invulnerable kills the drama and tension in the game for me.

As for players who want their character to die, I either just let them do crazy stuff, or come up with a situation where they can't be saved and/or focus all enemy attacks on them, or talk to them about other ways to change out a character for a new character (after all, it is certainly not necessary for a PC to die in order to switch out characters).

Simlasa · December 27, 2009, 10:06:17 PM

I've let characters of mine die, despite having enough fate/karma points to save them, when it's seemed fitting that they go out that way or the death was particularly funny/ironic.
Last time I did that though another PC did something really valiant to try to revive me... so I let him.

But I've got no issues with hit points... though I prefer there to be decline in abilities along the way, rather than go straight from 100% to corpse.

Claudius · December 28, 2009, 07:35:40 AM

Quote from: Simlasa;351701But I've got no issues with hit points... though I prefer there to be decline in abilities along the way, rather than go straight from 100% to corpse.

In this case you can have your cake and eat it too. There are games that use hit points in which characters suffer penalties when they are wounded. For example, Rolemaster, or Epic RPG.