a) Guy who hasn't played DnD for 10 years (probably AD&D2) goes to GenCon, thinks 4e is like a computer game and likes Pathfinder better.

b) 4e fanboys think he must be lying, as no-one could possibly entertain such views in good faith.

c) Earnest discussion ensues on whether the guy can be considered "Old School", as  he was remiss enough not spell out where he stood on the 1970s supplement material co-written by Jim Ward.

It's this last point that disappoints me. Only a year ago the interest in OOP DnD and its clones was much more fun and loose, now it is stagnating, people take their talking points straight from Grognardia or the "Old School Primer" and can't see the forest for the trees. Ironic that a movement that is allegedly about being freer is becoming such a straightjacket of orthodoxy so quickly.

Quote from: ticopelp;326182this kind of smells like astroturfing horseshit.

Yep.
 
I'd like to think otherwise, but this looks like Paizo pulling a Wizards.  Disappointing.

i almost want to go back and count the number of "geek" and "nerd" in that thing.  we get it already...you let your freak-flag fly.

it's less informative, and more annoying than anything else.

I guess I could be considered an Old School gamer, since I began playing the Holmes edition in 1979 and 1e soon after (#1 on ticopelp's list ), but I've had others, mostly online but at least once or twice in real life, scoff because I didn't start with White Box D&D. I play any edition of D&D like I always played D&D, and to be honest, 4e plays more like what I (maybe mistakenly) consider Old School to be than any edition since 1e. Doesn't mean 2e or 3e were bad games (though I wasn't a big fan of 2e).

Sure, 4e has a lot of stuff, mechanically and flavor-wise, that is clearly drawn from online games like WoW, but it's equally clear that WoW drew on D&D. Regardless, it helps make the game fun, in my opinion, plus, if it makes the game more like a MMORPG mechanically...so what? I mean, why is that so bad? Players and DMs still have all the freedom they ever did, which makes even the best MMORPG feel like a choose-your-own-adventure book.

Quote from: The_Shadow;326232a) Guy who hasn't played DnD for 10 years (probably AD&D2) goes to GenCon, thinks 4e is like a computer game and likes Pathfinder better.

b) 4e fanboys think he must be lying, as no-one could possibly entertain such views in good faith.

I don't think anyone here was saying that.

Quote from: The_Shadow;326232c) Earnest discussion ensues on whether the guy can be considered "Old School", as  he was remiss enough not spell out where he stood on the 1970s supplement material co-written by Jim Ward.

The reason I was discussing the subject was because I have no idea what is meant by Old School anymore, if I ever had one in the first place. Some would say I'm Old School, some would say I'm not. I always thought I was. :shrug: It wasn't that long ago that Old School seemed to refer to something more specific, and seemed to refer to D&D before the more story-based adventures that began somewhere around the start of the Dragonlance era. I'm the first to admit that my perception was perhaps mistaken.

Quote from: The_Shadow;326232It's this last point that disappoints me. Only a year ago the interest in OOP DnD and its clones was much more fun and loose, now it is stagnating, people take their talking points straight from Grognardia or the "Old School Primer" and can't see the forest for the trees. Ironic that a movement that is allegedly about being freer is becoming such a straightjacket of orthodoxy so quickly.

I recall seeing White Box D&D players looked down upon by the ones who had the Wood Grain box, or those considering themselves truly Old School turning their noses up at the supplements for OD&D that came after the White Box. I think the seeds of the schism were planted long, long ago.

Quote from: Seanchai;326209Interesting (and telling) question: Where are all the Pathfinder threads?

My game doesn't start til November.  I'll likely post observations at that time (although not an AP...I don't think I have the fortitude to do that).

I have to say this whole older players hatin' on 4E is one of the more annoying myths I see propogated.

This past week, this thread appeared on the big Purple:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=470618

In response, I posted this:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=470772

The level of response between these threads I think is telling.

Quote from: Thanlis;326220Paizo and ENWorld?

The base 3.5E forum at ENWorld gets more traffic than the Pathfinder Forum there. Take from that what you will.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;326263I have to say this whole older players hatin' on 4E is one of the more annoying myths I see propogated.

Some older players like 4e. Many don't - it's not a myth. Not really that annoying if you just take it easy.

Quote from: The_Shadow;326275Some older players like 4e. Many don't - it's not a myth. Not really that annoying if you just take it easy.

I don't appreciate people speaking for me. I may be on the young end of us old timers, but I played AD&D for years. They don't say it specifically, but people imply that 4E is largely rejected by older gamers. I don't buy that for a minute.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;326277They don't say it specifically, but people imply that 4E is largely rejected by older gamers. I don't buy that for a minute.

I agree.  I used to think it was so, but on ENworld in particular you see a lot of people who've been at it since the 70s and still love 4E.

I'm older, and I reject 4E. But I hate gamer balkanization, so I have a rule against posting in forums about it.


Which I just broke.


I guess.


But it's still a good rule!

Gamer Balkanization isn't completely the fault of these threads or the people that post in them. The 3E-4E switch resulted in some D&D players/fans being "dumped" by their game, and responding like someone who has been "dumped" out of the blue is certainly understandable.

I was just on a local board discussing gamer balkanization and the potential of setting up a game for charity. I offered my wonderful T&T Darth Vegas Vapor Day Spellathon, and the organizer (correctly) hypothesized that a T&T event would be under-attended. I marveled that it would be more important to gamers to refuse to play something other than D&D 3 or 4 than it would to have fun gaming and raise money for a worthy cause.

Things are just different than they were.

I'm old and cranky about it, and I feel a long, rambling, off-topic post coming on, so I think I'll just go and take some Geritol and mellow out.

I found the original story absolutely retarded and a really terrible shill? / shrill? Not sure. Anyway, bullshit.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;326228Shut the fuck up and roll the dice.

Now that's old school.

Preach it, brother!