Quote from: Settembrini;321816That makes Pendragon into...tada! Star Wars extended universe by WEG! or the other way round. And Pendragon is good at that! It´s also a dead game, which everybody choses to ignor, but anyhoo-
If I can´t be Lancelot, it´s FUCKING not emulating the genre. And THAT`S why it´s good.

Hmm... your definition of dead must not match real people's. Product is being released for it next month; just shipped to the printers.

WWG made all the older product available in PDF, in addition.

Quote from: Settembrini;321816As I said, the GOOD games take a franchise and expand it to a living breathing world. And this, my dear friends, just as I said right form the start is NOT genre emulation.

Yes, it is genre emulation. ALL games emulate a genre to some degree. And that's why universal systems can never be truly universal.

Quote from: Settembrini;321816Playing a bounty hunter and hunting Rebels is perfectly viable in WEG SW.
Being a shmoe doing accounting stuff and speculative trade, too.

But that is NOT emulating the Star Wars movies.

It emulates the genre just fine. See, it's possible to play major movers and shakers. I had a game where a young jedi and an Ewok came to be major players in the rebellion. They did stuff just as over the top as that Tatooinian Farmboy. Including a rather nasty fight with Vader. Emulated the genre beautifully, because the players chose to let it.

Genre emulation is a weak point in mechanics, however.

WEG, however, realized this up front, and didn't try to force the genre to be emulated, instead emulating the setting, and leaving the genre emulation to the GM and players.

007 put a lot of genre emulation into the rules. And it really does work. With a small group of players willing to play it for what it is. If you fight the rules, it flops.

Quote from: Settembrini;321816See, this is not about rhetoric, this is about idiocy. And some guys here insist on being mental lightweights.

Starting with Settembrini, or should I say, "Chicken Little."

Quote from: Settembrini;321816Genre emulation leads to doom, there is no way around that.

Bovine excrement!

Sorry, I couldn´t find any point or argument in your post.

But I can tell you this, my dear:

If your definition of "emulating genre" includes "Galaxy Guid 6: Tramp Freighters" as well as "Lords of the Expanse" , then your term has become meaningless. In fact, you might even agree with me, but you are unable to express that, because your definitions are in shambles.

The system allows (but does not require) the genre (Hero's Journey Science Fantasy), but does emulate the setting (Star Wars Universe) exceptionally. What it doesn't do at all is emulate the plot (Skywalker's cycle).

It is you, Sett, who lacks a clear idea on the terms.

Any RPG focused on Plot replication is doomed.

Emulation of the Genre (in this case, hero's journey sci-fan) is readily possible
Emulation of the setting is pretty darned good in d6 SW.


You seem to be fixating on emu

All I know is that I definitely kill the character of any player who started crapping on about positivism and illusionism and emulation, and who would not stop when asked to pass the cheetos.

Shut the fuck up and roll the dice.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;321942All I know is that I definitely kill the character of any player who started crapping on about positivism and illusionism and emulation, and who would not stop when asked to pass the cheetos.

Shut the fuck up and roll the dice.

My NEW Hero! :worship:

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;321942All I know is that I definitely kill the character of any player who started crapping on about positivism and illusionism and emulation, and who would not stop when asked to pass the cheetos.

Shut the fuck up and roll the dice.

LOL You win the thread.

Quote from: aramis;321919The system allows (but does not require) the genre (Hero's Journey Science Fantasy), but does emulate the setting (Star Wars Universe) exceptionally. What it doesn't do at all is emulate the plot (Skywalker's cycle).

It is you, Sett, who lacks a clear idea on the terms.

Any RPG focused on Plot replication is doomed.

Emulation of the Genre (in this case, hero's journey sci-fan) is readily possible
Emulation of the setting is pretty darned good in d6 SW.


You seem to be fixating on emu

What he said. But now I clearly see that Sett is not even reading the posts he answers to.

Quote from: aramis;321919The system allows (but does not require) the genre (Hero's Journey Science Fantasy), but does emulate the setting (Star Wars Universe) exceptionally. What it doesn't do at all is emulate the plot (Skywalker's cycle).

It is you, Sett, who lacks a clear idea on the terms.

Any RPG focused on Plot replication is doomed.

Emulation of the Genre (in this case, hero's journey sci-fan) is readily possible
Emulation of the setting is pretty darned good in d6 SW.


You seem to be fixating on emu

This is self contradictory. Heroe´s Hourney is always plot replication. That´s the fucking point of Campbell´s writing. It´s the SAME story over and over and over again.

Your definitions are in shambles, not mine.

But see, we can agree on simulating a world is different from emulating a genre. WEG SW has a travel time table and formulae for measuring the speed of ships, which is the exact opposite of how the genre depicts space travel.

Please answer this question:

Do you think that there can be good RPGing in a game that tries to keep genre conventions including and highlighting the artificialites like

messianic characters, one side always wins, predestination, Star Trek bridge crew, nobody dies, all problems really are emotional problems, ships move at speed of plot etc.?

Quote from: SettembriniDo you think that there can be good RPGing in a game that tries to keep genre conventions including and highlighting the artificialites like

messianic characters, one side always wins, predestination, Star Trek bridge crew, nobody dies, all problems really are emotional problems, ships move at speed of plot etc.?

Fucked if I know. But if anyone were running a game other than D&D4e around here, I'd give it a go. I have to run a game to make it happen.

I run Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a game that has explicit plot immunity.  That is, a character cannot be killed permanently without their consent.  I mean they can be killed, but they can spend Drama Points to come back.  More likely, they spend them to make sure they don't die in the first place.

Does that mean that its just a soap opera, that no one ever really feels in danger?  Not at all!  If anything, the players know that I will not save them.  There will be no fudging - I don't roll dice, there's nothing for me to fudge!  Its all up to them.

I've also played and ran a lot of CoC, and Sett you don't know what you're talking about.  The typical game of Cthulhu goes like this IME - the characters learn of something spooky going on.  They investigate, finding more and more disturbing facts.  Finally, they uncover the supernatural horror and hopefully have a good plan for dealing with it - otherwise they'll end up dead or insane.  I find this matches the stories rather well.

Buffy emulates genre as well, and does a good job of it.  The gameplay feels like an episode of the show, and everything from the terms used to the combat moves and Drama Point rules reflect that.

In fact, I'm only really interested in games that emulate a genre.  If something is 'its own thing' it bores me to tears.

Quote from: Settembrini;321980Please answer this question:

Do you think that there can be good RPGing in a game that tries to keep genre conventions including and highlighting the artificialites like

messianic characters, one side always wins, predestination, Star Trek bridge crew, nobody dies, all problems really are emotional problems, ships move at speed of plot etc.?

Yes, that is exactly what I look for in roleplaying games, regardless of whether I am GMing or playing. I do like games that adhere to genre conventions and given that most games aare based on genre fiction rather real contemporary or historical settings, I am guessing I am not the only one.

Quote from: Maddman;322044I run Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a game that has explicit plot immunity.  That is, a character cannot be killed permanently without their consent.  I mean they can be killed, but they can spend Drama Points to come back.  More likely, they spend them to make sure they don't die in the first place.

Does that mean that its just a soap opera, that no one ever really feels in danger?  Not at all!  If anything, the players know that I will not save them.  There will be no fudging - I don't roll dice, there's nothing for me to fudge!  Its all up to them.

I've also played and ran a lot of CoC, and Sett you don't know what you're talking about.  The typical game of Cthulhu goes like this IME - the characters learn of something spooky going on.  They investigate, finding more and more disturbing facts.  Finally, they uncover the supernatural horror and hopefully have a good plan for dealing with it - otherwise they'll end up dead or insane.  I find this matches the stories rather well.

Buffy emulates genre as well, and does a good job of it.  The gameplay feels like an episode of the show, and everything from the terms used to the combat moves and Drama Point rules reflect that.

In fact, I'm only really interested in games that emulate a genre.  If something is 'its own thing' it bores me to tears.

Wow. It's good to see you here. it's been quite some time.

Quote from: Maddman;322044Does that mean that its just a soap opera, that no one ever really feels in danger?  Not at all!  

Yes, that's my point. If you're character isn't going to die(or permanently retired) then you really have nothing to worry about. You might fail the mission but you'll always know that you'll live. Sorry, but for me that's the epitome of boring.

Quote from: greylond;322106Yes, that's my point. If you're character isn't going to die(or permanently retired) then you really have nothing to worry about. You might fail the mission but you'll always know that you'll live. Sorry, but for me that's the epitome of boring.

Horses for courses, of course, but there is another angle.

My current character is rather freakishly powerful, and there isn't really much danger that he can be killed.  I mean, it isn't impossible, but very unlikely.  The GM would have to make a serious, deliberate effort, and I'm pretty sure he won't.

However, my character has plans, and I care about those a lot.  The bad guys can screw those up.  Frequently I'm having to carefully consider my actions, and if I'm putting my plans in danger.

On top of that, there are NPCs that I very much care about, and they can be killed.

Thus, it is trivially easy to "threaten" my character.  Moreover, I think these kinds of threats are in some ways better, in that if they occur, it sucks but the game will go on.

Quote from: greylond;322106Yes, that's my point. If you're character isn't going to die(or permanently retired) then you really have nothing to worry about. You might fail the mission but you'll always know that you'll live. Sorry, but for me that's the epitome of boring.

You see, for me the kind of game in which failing the mission is no "nothing to worry about" is my  definition of boring.  

But acutally it really all depends on the specifc game. If the survival is what is at stake, then death is effectively "failing the mission".  But not all games are about survival there can be other things at stake. If you personally find that survival is the only stake really matters to you, you should by all means go with it.  It's a matter of taste.