To quote Pierce, "If a game does not allow a TPK without the consent of the players, it's not an RPG."

The supers genre certainly suites the no death approach, as soap opera is an integral part of the genre.

That's the question.

If PC death is off the table, is the result little more than soap opera?

Quote from: One Horse Town;321533That's the question.

If PC death is off the table, is the result little more than soap opera?

Or, should the question be: How would a "soap opera" fail to conform to the conventions of roleplaying games?

!i!

Quote from: One Horse Town;321533If PC death is off the table, is the result little more than soap opera?

Or a video game in "god mode".

No more than a Conan story is.
From page one you know Conan isn't going to die, in fact you know he's going to win. Will he win big, or barely survive?
That's the question.
Now before someone points out the ever so obscure point that Conan stories are not RPGs, I'll point out the equally difficult to grasp point that neither are soap operas.

All that aside, in a multi player game I'll do a tpk in heartbeat, however, I'm a bit more reluctant in a one-on-one game.

I question what value a TPK brings to an on-going campaign (one-shots perfectly acceptable).  What's the purpose other then just doing it because you can.  There's no challenge in it since the GM holds all the cards and the reward for doing it are pissed off players and rebooting the game, usually in some illogical manner.  It's one thing where you plan out an epic fight and win or lose that'll be the end of it.  It's another if the players miss a trap roll and are all insta-crushed.

The tpk allows the GM to feel powerful and smart, which cuts down on his time to orgasm during masturbation, therefore leaving him more time for important things, like going out and picking up more doritos.

Urm, welcome back, Aos.

There is no one size fits all answer. I can enjoy a genuinely lethal game and I can enjoy a game where death is by consent only. It all really depends on the game and what your group wants to get out of it.

I can understand how in a game based on character progression and tactical challenge the constant threat of death critically important. In a game based more on character personalities and storylines based on the individual characters, meaningless deaths can be just a colossal waste of everyone's time. But even then I can see case where the reverse is true.

Toon and Paranoia are both comedy games. In the first you can't die, in the latter you should expect to die several times per session. Neither count as a soap opera.

I think where it get's messed up is that often the GM doesn't make it clear to the players with regards to character death; perhaps he himself isn't too clear in his own mind.

Typically what happens is that the GM piles on the challenges to make the scene exciting, plays the combat straight (because that is how it's meant to be done, right? ) until he suddenly realises the party is going to get wiped out and he get's cold feet. Then he start pulling his punches, fudging the rules and dice rolls or even sends in the cavalry to save the party, all the while complaining about fluky dice rolls.  

Yeah...

If you want to go lethal, go lethal. If you want to give the characters script immunity do so (there are plenty of other mechanical and story ways to mark a defeat without it having to be death). But please, be honest with your players. Don't just pretend it's going to be lethal and then pull your punches. It's that kind of GM style that really makes combat meaningless.

Quote from: One Horse Town;321547Urm, welcome back, Aos.

Thanks, it seems I've arrived just in time.

People die in soap operas all the time. They even die and then come back in the next series with a different face, just like a reincarnation in a RPG.
The two things are fucking identical

Quote from: kryyst;321543I question what value a TPK brings to an on-going campaign (one-shots perfectly acceptable).  What's the purpose other then just doing it because you can.

In a sandbox game, TPKs are potential hurdles to be overcome by good gameplay.   If the GM is smart and fair, his sandbox will have signs that can be read and learned by smart players, aka, if you hear that Trolls are killing merchants along the Long Road, you don't go on the Long Road unless your party is troll-killing capable.  

Of course, in a sandbox game, shit can happen.   Sometimes you roll high on the Wandering Monster chart and a bigger foe shows up.   And then, the PCs blow their chance to spot it at a distance, and then the PCs decide to attack it, and then the dice roll badly...

I ran two OD&D sessions of last year that had the same encounter:  a patrol of 8 soldiers led by one fighter were ambushed by 24 orcs.  The PCs hear the sounds of battle and screams from long range.   One party rushed to the soldier's rescue...and they were massacred too.    The other party fled back to the nearby village where they mounted a strong defense.

Quote from: Aos;321545The tpk allows the GM to feel powerful and smart, which cuts down on his time to orgasm during masturbation, therefore leaving him more time for important things, like going out and picking up more doritos.

Wait, I'm confused. Is the GM using the doritos as part of masturbation?

I mean, I'm open to trying new things, but that seems a bit . . . pointy . . .

Real men use sand and peanut brittle for lube.

Quote from: One Horse Town;321533To quote Pierce, "If a game does not allow a TPK without the consent of the players, it's not an RPG."

The supers genre certainly suites the no death approach, as soap opera is an integral part of the genre.

That's the question.

If PC death is off the table, is the result little more than soap opera?

Yes.

A special case comes in to play with supers. In the old old limited issue series Villains & Vigilantes comic there is a great conversation between the villains about why they never killed off the heroes. The reason was that when you killed a super, the super tended to usually come back with additional or different powers and was much stronger to defeat the next time around. I always liked that.

Quote from: jibbajibba;321555People die in soap operas all the time. They even die and then come back in the next series with a different face, just like a reincarnation in a RPG.
The two things are fucking identical

What he said...=)