Quote from: greylond;315039The Stats don't "Give you Build Points"

Yes they do.  High Int, Wis, and Char, give you a few bonus BP that can only be used on skills based on those abilities.  They're not general purpose BP but that's splitting hairs as more points for skills makes it easy to spend BP elsewhere.

Quote from: JollyRB;315047Can you do my tax returns next year?

Nah, check with Bean_Counter. I let him do all my gaming maths...

Quote from: Nicephorus;315053Yes they do.  High Int, Wis, and Char, give you a few bonus BP that can only be used on skills based on those abilities.  They're not general purpose BP but that's splitting hairs as more points for skills makes it easy to spend BP elsewhere.

Yes, you are splitting hairs. He said that they give you BPs that can then be spent on your Stats;

Quote from: Silverlion;314931It seems problematic to me that you "Roll stats, that give you build points, then can spend those same points to up those same stats."

Which is clearly what I was addressing...

The cost of raising attributes by build points makes it fairly restrictive; I think that its pretty well-regulated. You can't really use the build points to make an uber-character; and spending a lot of build points on stats means you'll be reduced in your potential for anything else.  There are better ways to spend your points.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;315142The cost of raising attributes by build points makes it fairly restrictive; I think that its pretty well-regulated. You can't really use the build points to make an uber-character; and spending a lot of build points on stats means you'll be reduced in your potential for anything else.  There are better ways to spend your points.

RPGPundit

I'm sure there are. I don't have a lack of them for my Elf at the moment (even after upping my 9:something strength to 10:something...)

 The skill system, seems terrible in its design though. I think its "too much double dipping" of values for me. I'd rather have simplicity and let people buy high skills if they want them (or not) than this random stuff (at least for skill.)

Admittedly, I may not be the games intended audience. My friends in this case are the intended audience. If they stop at character creation, something has gone awry.

Then just use the quick start rules for creating characters.  It takes 10-15 minutes tops.

BTW nice little fan-produced character generation aid here: http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43925

So I thought I'd share a few things now that we've played a single session:

Primarily there were some complaints about the complexity of tracking initiative, and in general the many numbers on the PC sheets to track. Especially notable were the complaints about Hit Points from our primary human warrior...since he rolled max, and wouldn't enjoy much benefit from "rerolls"

We started on the free module my friend downloaded to test out the system. (Off to save "lead paint..?")

Anyway here is my PC: Ehldaimon the the Dashing




Neutral Good, Elf, Mage, Level 1

Str: 10/07  Int 18/53 Wis: 17/51 Dex 17/64 Con 11/71  Lks 19/66  Cha 19/20
Honor: 21     HP: 16

Spells (Prepared) Firefinger, Aura of Protection, Deep Sleep

Proficiencies: Shield, Spear, Staff, Shield
Talents: Parry Bonus +2, Swift Blade +1, Attack Bonus +1, Damage Bonus +2
Skills: Cartagraphy 46, Diplomacy 64, Distraction 80, Glean Info 38, Hiding 24, Listening 41, Observation 55, Resist Persuasion 64, Sneaking 36, Arcane Lore 56, Animal Empathy 45, Monster Lore 42

(I noticed that a lot of advantages exist for a warrior beyond their base abilities, but little for Mages. I hope the Advanced book remedies this in part.)


I'll note that the vast majority of us used the default rolling system. Only one player needed some rerolls (because of stats way below Hackmasters standard bottom out limit.)

Our other Pc's were a Halfling Cleric named Cora, a human cleric, whose name I forgot (houseruled to be underaged: 12), a human warrior named Nathaniel, and a Dwarf Warrior named Ray.

At first combat might seem complicated but after 2 or 3 sessions it starts to flow.

Anything you want to ask about?

Quote from: greylond;319795At first combat might seem complicated but after 2 or 3 sessions it starts to flow.

Anything you want to ask about?

Not from me, maybe I'll send my Gm over here and see what he thinks.

Send him over to the K&Co forums and he'll get faster answers, and from more people than just me. After GenCon the K&Co Crew will be back online and answering questions themselves...

I think the new initiative/count system flows pretty well. As a GM, I like to keep a running list of each count, a jot down a brief note of who does what on each count (for the NPCs), followed by when they act next. This helps me keep track of things.

All in all I really like the game. It has that old school feel to it but it isn't a retro clone, it's got a whole new system built from the ground up, and it has lots of familiar bits to it that most people should gel with right away.