Quote from: Joethelawyer;319514you know, someone HAS been buying up all the "semi-new" #4e books from ebay lately for cheap.  mystery solved?  they may even make a profit off the $5 books.  

LOL Cheap shot.

Quote from: Benoist;319518LOL Cheap shot.

I just couldn't resist.  

This $5 for PHB1 offer sounds like a sign they're trying to unload surplus inventory sitting around collecting dust in their warehouses.  They may have guessed wrong on the demand for the PHB1 books, and printed up too many in subsequent printings.

If they're indeed having a 4.5E D&D planned all along from the start, it's better for them to sell off all the old inventory now before any announcement of 4.5E.  All that 4E inventory already collecting dust, will probably become completely worthless once a 4.5E announcement is made.  Only way to get of rid it after then, would be to liquidate or destroy it.  Neither option is particularly pleasant.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuck;319488Might a direct response to Pathfinder being $10.

"Why buy a PDF for $10 when you can get a print book for $5?"

Not impossible.

Quote from: Melan;319525Not impossible.

Wizards would definitely not be the first company to attempt to spend their competition out of business (cf Microsoft).

From an historical perspective, 3.5E was planned from the very beginning.

An article by Monte Cook spills out some of the insider details.

http://www.montecook.com/arch_review26.html

Quote from: from linked Monte Cook articleSee, I'm going to let you in on a little secret, which might make you mad: 3.5 was planned from the beginning.

Even before 3.0 went to the printer, the business team overseeing D&D was talking about 3.5. Not surprisingly, most of the designers -- particularly the actual 3.0 team (Jonathan Tweet, Skip Williams, and I) thought this was a poor idea. Also not surprisingly, our concerns were not enough to affect the plan. The idea, they assured us, was to make a revised edition that was nothing but a cleanup of any errata that might have been found after the book's release, a clarification of issues that seemed to confuse large numbers of players, and, most likely, all new art. It was slated to come out in 2004 or 2005, to give a boost to sales at a point where -- judging historically from the sales trends of previous editions -- they probably would be slumping a bit. It wasn't to replace everyone's books, and it wouldn't raise any compatibility or conversion issues.

...

So, one has to surmise that the new business team determined that sales were slumping slightly earlier than predicted and needed 3.5 to come out earlier. One also has to surmise that someone -- at some level -- decided that it was to be a much, much more thorough revision than previously planned. Some of this is probably just human nature (two of the 3.0 designers were out of the way, and one would only work at Wizards of the Coast for about half the design time) and some of it is probably the belief that more revenue would be generated with more drastic changes. The philosophy of 3.5 has changed from being a financial "shot in the arm" into something with significant enough changes to make it a "must-buy." Perhaps they thought to strive for the sales levels of 2000. Perhaps there was corporate pressure to reach those sales levels again.

Is history repeating itself, on a much faster timescale this time around?

Quote from: ggroy;319528From an historical perspective, 3.5E was planned from the very beginning.

An article by Monte Cook spills out some of the insider details.

http://www.montecook.com/arch_review26.html



Is history repeating itself, on a much faster timescale this time around?

I'm hoping that is not the case... But I wouldn't be surprised either way.

I suspect it's just a loss-leader to spur sales. Given what we can reasonably guess (cost $10 per book counting overhead, 2 for $35 with no distibutor is still a net profit...)

You know, I'm hard pressed to think of any action by WotC that wouldn't be interpreted as a sign that WotC/4e is failing/scared by a subset of the gaming population that really wants WotC/4e to be failing/scared.  I can't come up with anything, can you?

Now, I think it's very possible that WotC might be planning a reprint of the PHB with errata in the near future, but PHB+Errata = What many of us are already playing with, now.  I wouldn't even buy the book, if so - I use the Compendium for all that stuff.  Still, I can't blame them for trying to capture some Gen Con buzz and gamer goodwill.  And, when it comes down to it, more PHBs in the wild = More PHBs that will possibly see use.  And aramis nailed the math - without distributors or retailers, WotC will still make a profit off this since it's a Buy-One sort of offer.  Simply put, I don't see a down side to this promotion for WotC.

Both WotC and Paizo are poised to have wonderfully successful conventions.  Paizo will almost certainly sell out of the PF core book on the first day, unless they hold some in reserve for the rest of the week.  They're going to be insanely successful, and have the most hotly-anticipated new product of the con.  And that rocks.  I predict WotC will have a damn good convention, too - like I said, the more PHBs there are in the wild, the better off WotC is.  And, frankly, all of this is a wonderful thing for the industry - competition is good for them, and it's good for us.

-O

Quote from: Benoist;319505"Wizards of the Coast will be selling the 4th Edition Player's Handbook for $5 with the purchase of any other D&D rulebook."

And there's the rub.

They stand to get at least $35 as most supplements are $30.  Not bad considering they've completely cut out the middleman.  It also gives anyone on the fence a reason to pick up 4e.  Not to mention that $40 for the PHB & DMG (one of the best DMing books I've read in a while) is a good deal.  Or, if they have it there, one could pick up the Starter Set and the PHB for under $25 total.

Were I going to GenCon I'd probably stop by and take advantage of this and pick up the PHB2 even though I don't plan on running 4e any time soon.  But I am playing in monthly game which would make it worth it.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuck;319488Might a direct response to Pathfinder being $10.

"Why buy a PDF for $10 when you can get a print book for $5?"

My response, were I there, would be "Because that $5 print book is fucking garbage, that's why."

Were I there.

Wizards can make money on the 2-for-1s and undercut Pathfinder.  Seems like a win-win to me.

Also, while I don't really care what happens to the industry, I predict that the $10 pdf thing is going to go down as a giant fuck up.  In a decade when there's no difference between print and pdf, people aren't going to just forget that the product used to be $10 in computer format, and for big publisher, just selling $10 pdfs is unlikely to cover their production costs.

And to jump on the delver hate train "Because why the fuck would I spend $10 for a pdf that's available for free as the 3.5 srd?"

I wonder if the WoTC special is connected with the Goodman Games Special in any way.

Quote from: Goodman Games WebsiteBig Plans For Gen Con – If you're attending Gen Con this year, make sure to visit Goodman Games! You can save up to 50% at our booth when you trade in your used 3E books. We'll have seven new releases, including a number of convention exclusives, as well as two big announcements. Check out our complete Gen Con plans and get ready for a great convention!

http://www.goodman-games.com/

Quote from: counterspin;319846Wizards can make money on the 2-for-1s and undercut Pathfinder.  Seems like a win-win to me.

Also, while I don't really care what happens to the industry, I predict that the $10 pdf thing is going to go down as a giant fuck up.  In a decade when there's no difference between print and pdf, people aren't going to just forget that the product used to be $10 in computer format, and for big publisher, just selling $10 pdfs is unlikely to cover their production costs.

And to jump on the delver hate train "Because why the fuck would I spend $10 for a pdf that's available for free as the 3.5 srd?"

To get a better game for less money than what you paid for 4E?

Quote from: obryn;319817You know, I'm hard pressed to think of any action by WotC that wouldn't be interpreted as a sign that WotC/4e is failing/scared by a subset of the gaming population that really wants WotC/4e to be failing/scared.  I can't come up with anything, can you?

No, I can't.