There have been RPGs oriented at the preteen boy market: the Fighting Fantasy books, which have been huge successes are one good example.

And while Choose Your Own Adventure books were, to my recollection, as popular with girls as with boys, there was never a successful RPG made for girls.  Not that there weren't attempts, but usually these were so immensely lame that no self-respecting girl would give a damn about them.

I think that one of the main mistakes made by designers of these games was to try to change the fundamental ideas of what RPGs featured, and to appeal not to girls but to the stereotypes of "girly" things.

I think that just as FF is a lead-in to what is cool about regular "adult" RPGs for young boys, what you'd need to do is something that did the same for girls, not trying to CHANGE what RPGs are about, but trying to emphasize the things about RPGs that a girl in that age range might find cool.

So what would be a good way to create a introductory proto-rpg for young girls akin to what Fighting Fantasy is for young boys?

RPGPundit

Pre-WotC editions of D&D.

No, seriously. My friend's older daughter is 9, and she started gaming last year, first only in solo adventures ran by Daddy, and more recently also playing in my otherwise all-adult campaign. She only ever played 1E (and my hybrid 1E-based homebrew), and she's totally into it.

It made me realize that the whole "right system for demographic X" idea is bollocks. I mean, it wasn't even OD&D, Basic or Classic, which you'd expect to be more appropriate for children by being lighter on rules, it was 1E. It's not the system that counts, it's how she's introduced to it and by whom and what her early experiences are. In this case, she first just saw roleplaying as something incomprehensible but fun that Daddy does with his grown-up friends every weekend, and she just wanted to be a part of the fun.

But to answer the question at least partially: any system where the DM can run a game for a player who hasn't read the rulebooks at all. That's all you need, and that's something old-school D&D (and many other games, no doubt) can easily provide.

I don't think we "fatbeards" are really qualified to answer this question.

What we would need is an excellent female designer with no 20/20 hindsight bias on her own childhood to come here and educate us.
Seriously.

Quote from: Premier;317209Pre-WotC editions of D&D.

No, seriously. My friend's older daughter is 9, and she started gaming last year, first only in solo adventures ran by Daddy, and more recently also playing in my otherwise all-adult campaign. She only ever played 1E (and my hybrid 1E-based homebrew), and she's totally into it.

My two last campaigns were played with an overwhelming majority of female players for one of them, completely female group for the other, and I too observed the same thing. My players loved to kill things, take their stuff, headbutt people in taverns, et cetera. They liked a good puzzle, enigma or negotiation every once in a while, loved to RP their characters downtime interactions, but they were here to kick butt first and foremost. Far from the pansy-daisies stereotype of female gamers who would want to role-play first, roll dice second, if you see what I mean.

I asked my 9yo daughter "I a roeplaying game, what do you want?"
My 9yo says:
 - lots of enthusiasm
 - finding lots of bodies that are already decayed... sometimes...
 - lots of rolling dice
 - lots of weird creatures

Favorite game so far: D&D. (Cyclopedia, since that's the only D&D version she's played.)

How do you feel about Arrowflight (asked because she's playing in my Arrowflight game): "I'd like it better if they added a few more monsters."

She mentions her favorite fight was with the windlords, a type of dragon.

Quote from: RPGPundit;317207So what would be a good way to create a introductory proto-rpg for young girls akin to what Fighting Fantasy is for young boys?

My 36-year old man's guess would be something that is to Twilight as Fighting Fantasy or HeroQuest was to the Conan movie.

I'm kind of surprised White Wolf isn't on to this actually.

PS For Twilight, read Twilight, Pirates of the Carribean, Harry Potter, Buffy, and so on.

PPS In my ludicrously unqualified opinion, RPGs and similar products seem to sell best when they're shamelessly taking ideas from popular culture, rather than either trying to be original, creating a consistent world, or reacting to other RPGs.

The cover should sparkle.

Forget realism. Better equipment should just make you look fancier or better-looking or more archetypal or something. If Japanese schoolgirl uniform > plate mail, you're on the right track. If yo-yo > broadsword, even better!

It should be able to handle both Buffy and Sailor Moon with similar ease. Yes, Revolutionary Girl Utena also, if you insist. Fine, fine, Fruits Basket, too! Gilmore Girls? Are you serious? . . . well, ok, maybe.

Um . . . no talking animals. They're creepy.

Zombies. Girls dig zombies.

Misunderstood good guy bad boys. If Twilight proves anything, it's that girls are a sucker for this character type. The more the better!

Horses. Unicorns and Pegasuses are even better.

And that's about all I got.

isnt the Witch Girls rpg aimed at pre teen girls?

An online game would probably be a better format for a product like this than anything else.

This guy was going to do a Labyrinth Lord online game, but I'm not sure whether it's still happening.

Best way? I think first have them read Mercedes Lackey, then do Blue Rose RPG. But that's just me.

Quote from: Benoist;317210I don't think we "fatbeards" are really qualified to answer this question.

Firstly I'm not fat. I'm a little large I'll grant you but fat? No. Secondly I've tried but I can never EVER seem to grow a beard right. Or at all. Thus I think it's better consider me "Mildly heavily stubble" in answering this question. I still stand by Blue Rose RPG. Mostly because it seems like (at least back in my day and still some ways today) those girls that DID play D&D read those kinds of series.

Your daughter already has excellent taste, Aramis. You're clearly doing a very good parenting job.

RPGPundit

Well he/she is certainly better off than the parent I saw when I was working about two days ago. *true story* Some girl, had to be no older than 7, ran out of the play area (I work at a fast food type industry deal thing. More as that develops) She runs out and flat out asks her dad to tie her shirt to make it show her belly/midriff. A 7 year old...


*sighs* This is why I hate the internet.

Quote from: RPGPundit;317207So what would be a good way to create a introductory proto-rpg for young girls akin to what Fighting Fantasy is for young boys?

RPGPundit

Been done already. It's called Bella Sara.

http://www.bellasara.com

This is one of Peter Adkison's ventures, and the team he supports for this is first rate. It's mainstream, and everything WOTC aspires for their target demographic.

Daddy,

I'll keep that in mind for later useage...show any pre-teen girls ask me to help them with RPGs.

Something wholesome yeah - start 'em on Vampire: Requiem.