From time to time, I notice that the crossed-out prices at DTRPG and RPGNow are the price for the actual printed book, so the actual price you pay(if you choose to buy) isn't actually a sale price as it's made to look. Big-name publishers seem to be more guilty of this than others(and PDF-only products are immune to this for obvous reasons). And one thing I've noticed -- when a publisher does this, the PDF is almost always severely overpriced.

I noticed it with the Supernatural RPG. The actual book costs $39.99. The PDF costs . . . $29.99. They make it look like you're saving $10 by getting the PDF, but that's not the case. Considering that printing and physical distribution are responsible for something like 60% to 80% of the final price you pay for a physical copy, I can't imagine anything that would warrant a PDF going for more than 50% of the printed book's price.

Now that I've noticed this trend, it at least helps inform my purchases -- for example, I can see at a glance that they're overcharging for the Supernatural PDF by a good $10, so I often find myself asking "Am I really willing to overpay by $10 to have this now, or is saving a few bucks more for a print copy later on worth it?". But this has resulted in a lot fewer PDF sales(which have higher profit margins even at 50% cost thanks to the whole lack of physicality thing) than I otherwise would have made.

And the whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not only are they giving the impression of offering a product "on sale" when they're doing nothing of the sort, they're practically advertising the fact that they're charging way too much to anyone who knows anything about physical and electronic publishing processes/costs.

A few publishers (mostly indie) have notice and are doing different.

John Wick's Houses of the Blooded is a $40 book. The PDF was $5.

Marc Miller is selling PDF's of the old editions of Traveller in two ways:
1) $5-$10 per book individually.
2) massive collections by edition on CD-Rom for $35

I love really good PDF bargains like those, but I wouldn't ever make it a requirement that a PDF be dirt cheap. Considering how low profit margins on print RPGs are, I can totally understand pricing PDFs at something that'll offer a bit larger profit margin per unit moved(thus why I find up to 50% of the cost of a print product acceptable). But something like 75% of print product price(and then presenting it as if it's some sale price when they're just comparing it to the print price) . . . ugh.

It's just a sales tactic. One banned in Australia under the Trade Practices Act - like having a "closing down sale" for eighteen months - but just a sales tactic.

Part of being in a consumer society is being aware of these things, ignoring them, and just focusing on the actual price and the actual product. Does its cost equal or exceed its value to you?

If you're uncomfortable with that, don't be a consumer.

When DTRPG first opened, the retail price was the printed book price and the sale price was the PDF price. I don't know if that's the way it's supposed to be now, but that's the origin of the pricing scheme.

For some publishers that may also be a thin line to tread. Maybe some of them don't want to alienate their brick-and-mortar customers, so they have to set the PDF prices not too low.

(That they now make considerably more from each PDF sale is just a bonus... but, OTOH, some end customers might be repelled, save the extra 10 $ and go for the print edition. Win - win - win situation.)

Yes, I noticed that the pricing on some products was wonky a while ago.  Now I double check prices before I think about purchasing.

I don't find it dishonest, but it is wholly impractical on the buyer end, which means that it's poor salesmanship and a pretty bad business practice (people realizing that "price difference" is not what it seems will not encourage repeat buyers).

They'd be better off offering the PDF for free to those who purchase the book directly from their website or with partner-sellers, or simply offer a low-priced PDF on its own.

If people really want just a PDF for free, they can probably find it online... Pretty sad but a reality that must be faced.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;310412And the whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Not only are they giving the impression of offering a product "on sale" when they're doing nothing of the sort, they're practically advertising the fact that they're charging way too much to anyone who knows anything about physical and electronic publishing processes/costs.

I very rarely buy PDF's. Maybe once a year. Here in the U.S., the free market philiosophy still wins through, and that means one is allowed to charge whatever the market will bear for a product, print or electronic. I would continue to wholeheartedly support such a philosophy on account the people that would most get hurt from any market control legislation would be the small print houses, and Indie game designers.

My automatic inclination if the price point on a PDF is too close to the print price point is to go ahead and spend the extra few dollars to buy the printed version instead of the PDF.

The smart publishers are making different choices. If you buy a print copy of an RPG, they'll let you download a PDF as a courtesy. Why? On any decent scale the cost to produce and distribute the PDF is negligable.

Paizo is actually selling the Pathfinder RPG PDF for $9.99 and the print version for $49.95 using the PDF as a loss leader to get eyes on the actual game. It's a great move, business wise, and will actually lead to an increase of hardback copy sales.

Yes, it's dishonest. It's clearly intended to give the impression that the crossed-out price is the usual price, and the product is on sale.

Quote from: Age of Fable;310623Yes, it's dishonest. It's clearly intended to give the impression that the crossed-out price is the usual price, and the product is on sale.

This here is what I don't llike, and I agree that this specific aspect is dishonest. I'm with GameDaddy about the free market, folks need to be able to charge what they need to for a product or service, with few exceptions. However, intentionally setting things up so that it looks as if we're receiving some kind of discounted price off an original is a little dishonest IMO and I don't like it. It's not needed, and shows a level of doubt in the mind of the seller on the product's ability to attract interest, also IMO.

Quote from: GameDaddy;310622Paizo is actually selling the Pathfinder RPG PDF for $9.99 and the print version for $49.95 using the PDF as a loss leader to get eyes on the actual game. It's a great move, business wise, and will actually lead to an increase of hardback copy sales.

paizo probably is making money from the PDF. Not a loss leader... a lower expense edition.

Speaking as a relatively new publisher, I have listed my products on retail sites at a certain price, and then reduced it later when I find that my pricing was too much, or as with Threat Record, gotten a good deal on printing. I didn't leave the original price up for any devious reasons, just to show folks that I had cut my prices. I have, since this thread came up, just set my prices to the cut level, and that is all you will see from now on.

Quote from: Jamfke;310644Speaking as a relatively new publisher, I have listed my products on retail sites at a certain price, and then reduced it later when I find that my pricing was too much, or as with Threat Record, gotten a good deal on printing. I didn't leave the original price up for any devious reasons, just to show folks that I had cut my prices. I have, since this thread came up, just set my prices to the cut level, and that is all you will see from now on.

I would say probably the best to avoid any misconceptions Good luck with your creations

Edit: Well heck, your stuff is very reasonable anyway I wouldn't worry if I were you.

Quote from: GameDaddy;310622Paizo is actually selling the Pathfinder RPG PDF for $9.99 and the print version for $49.95 using the PDF as a loss leader to get eyes on the actual game. It's a great move, business wise, and will actually lead to an increase of hardback copy sales.

Highly unlikely.