The Craziness of Dungeons

boulet · June 23, 2009, 09:29:29 AM

The fascination with underground caves is ageless. The tale of Orpheus comes to mind. Dungeon crawlers risk their life for a cause (or just some loot) like the hero of old did. There's no negotiation with Hades though, unless you consider the GM to be the keeper of the underworld. I think Jules Verne has played a role too in creating dungeon fetish.

Melan · June 23, 2009, 09:41:08 AM

Oh yes, and let us not forget A. Merritt's Face in the Abyss, which has a place that's almost exactly like a megadungeon. In EGG's Appendix N, I believe it is mentioned as a primary inspiration for the game.

Gronan of Simmerya · June 23, 2009, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;309811Another literary antecedent to D&D's dungeons is Conan. "The Scarlet Citadel" and "Xuthal of the Dusk" are both fairly dungeon-like. "Tower of the Elephant", sort of.

Vance's The Dying Earth also has a bit of a dungeon in "Guyal of Sfere".

And the Lankhmar stories include "Quarmall", also somewhat dungeon-like. You could also add much of Swords of Lankhmar.

Right.

Dave put the dungeon under Blackmoor based on that he thought it would be cool.

Gary's favorite REH story was Red Nails, which mentions vast pits under the place they are. Barsoomian cities also had huge labyrinthine pits, and Gary LOVED Lankhmar. Quarmall was a huge influence.

Just like Clerics came about because Dave wanted to slow down Sir Fang, and Monks came about because Jim Ward thought the song "Kung Fu Fighting" was hilarious so he put "Chaotic Kung Fu Fighters" in his dungeon.

In other words, we made up some shit that we thought would be fun. We never, ever dreamed people would take it so fucking seriously.

Drew · June 23, 2009, 12:28:47 PM

Quote from: Old Geezer;309945In other words, we made up some shit that we thought would be fun. We never, ever dreamed people would take it so fucking seriously.

The tradition is still alive and well, despite what online discourse would indicate.

RPGPundit · June 23, 2009, 03:01:33 PM

Quote from: kryyst;309784Lord of the Rings Moria. What spawned that I have no idea. Egyptian pyramids maybe and Pompeii.

Except Moria isn't like a D&D dungeon either. They're very different.

RPGPundit

RPGPundit · June 23, 2009, 03:03:44 PM

Quote from: Hackmastergeneral;309809There were wizards in the real world?
;)

Well, let's see. Thomas Bacon, Pope Sylvester II, Paracelsus, Agrippa, John Dee, Francis Bacon, possibly James I of England (the curse he laid on us pipe smokers is still going strong, at least).

Don't know which, if any of them, had towers.

RPGPundit

RPGPundit · June 23, 2009, 03:07:18 PM

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;309822Gygax cites Margaret St. Clair's "Sign of the Labrys" in Appendix N of the 1e DMG. It's a post-apocalyptic story, and the bulk of the action takes place in a multilevel, sprawling, underground science & technology complex that has been partially abandoned, partially ruined and looted, and is still partially inhabited. A lot of classic D&D dungeon tropes seem to have come from here, including a bewildering array of fungi, wandering monsters, and bizarre traps seemingly placed at random.

Ahh, as usual, Gonzo has the answer. Who'd have thought that DUNGEONS, one half of the D&D name itself, are actually a cleverly hidden sci-fi-element-in-fantasy?

RPGPundit

Benoist · June 23, 2009, 03:11:25 PM

It's a confluence of things.

First there's Dave's game where he had Blackmoor castle and, after playing that, found out the players wanted more of it. The only way to expand Blackmoor was down, so down he went... creating dungeons below.

There's also the metric ton of literary sources everyone points out.

There's also the concept of the mythological underworld (as Philotomy puts it) that meshed with all these events and ideas.

All these things gradually collided to create the concept of dungeon as it appears in the game.

Aos · June 23, 2009, 03:14:39 PM

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;309811Another literary antecedent to D&D's dungeons is Conan. "The Scarlet Citadel" and "Xuthal of the Dusk" are both fairly dungeon-like. "Tower of the Elephant", sort of.

Vance's The Dying Earth also has a bit of a dungeon in "Guyal of Sfere".

And the Lankhmar stories include "Quarmall", also somewhat dungeon-like. You could also add much of Swords of Lankhmar.

I love all these stories, especially The Scarlet Citadel and Guyal of Sfere

Aos · June 23, 2009, 03:16:01 PM

Quote from: Old Geezer;309945In other words, we made up some shit that we thought would be fun. We never, ever dreamed people would take it so fucking seriously.

Lost me. Who is taking what so fucking seriously?

ColonelHardisson · June 23, 2009, 03:16:39 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;309984Ahh, as usual, Gonzo has the answer. Who'd have thought that DUNGEONS, one half of the D&D name itself, are actually a cleverly hidden sci-fi-element-in-fantasy?

RPGPundit

Gonzo? When did I become Gonzo? I've been called a lot of things in my life, but that's a first.

Benoist · June 23, 2009, 03:17:47 PM

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;309991Gonzo? When did I become Gonzo? I've been called a lot of things in my life, but that's a first.

I knew your avatar seemed familiar...

Aos · June 23, 2009, 03:18:26 PM

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;309991Gonzo? When did I become Gonzo? I've been called a lot of things in my life, but that's a first.

Your nose is turning the rest of us on.

ColonelHardisson · June 23, 2009, 03:19:28 PM

Quote from: Benoist;309992I knew your avatar seemed familiar...

It's actually Buck Rogers, from the comic strip, circa the late 20s/early 30s...just to be didactic...

ColonelHardisson · June 23, 2009, 03:22:38 PM

Quote from: Aos;309993Your nose is turning the rest of us on.

Aw, damn, I never think the Muppet Show when I see the word "Gonzo." I always think of Hunter S. Thompson.