Who is the Ultimate Arbiter: The System, or the GM?

aramis · June 09, 2009, 08:09:29 PM

For me, the GM is the ultimate arbiter most of the time, but a GM who's at odds with all his players more than occasionally soon finds a lack of players.

Tamelorn · June 09, 2009, 08:33:23 PM

Quote from: David R;307364Welcome to the rpgsite Tamelorn.

Regards,
David R

Thanks! Sorry for the necropost, but three months old isn't THAT bad, eh?

Gronan of Simmerya · June 09, 2009, 10:19:21 PM

Bow down before Geezer, puny rules!

jeff37923 · June 09, 2009, 11:44:35 PM

Quote from: Old Geezer;307387Bow down before Geezer, puny rules!

Zod Geezer?

Sigmund · June 10, 2009, 12:32:26 AM

GMs before rules for me.

Ned the Lonely Donkey · June 10, 2009, 06:34:38 AM

I guess someone's already said "Neither, the group is the ultimate arbiter"? I've yet to see dumb-ass rules or dumb-ass GM decisions pass by a group of attentive players unmocked. No amount of "I am da law!" shouting is going to get around a bunch of players tossing peanuts at you; no one's going to break down the door and confiscate your books if the group decides "we hate that rule".

I also have a $1000 dollar suit (£500, but you know) and shiny shoes. My arguments are thus unassailable!

Ned

GnomeWorks · June 10, 2009, 10:34:49 AM

Given that I prefer to treat the rules-set as in-game physics, I prefer to treat the rules as the final arbiter.

That said, though, I also believe that the GM needs to keep an eye out for game mechanics that are disruptive to play and rectify them. So while the system is the final arbiter, the GM has some veto power.

RPGPundit · June 10, 2009, 03:13:47 PM

There's no such thing as "the group". If there's any real moment when all the players agree without coersion or manipulation on something that the GM does not, then in all likelihood the GM is an ass and everyone should have stopped playing with him long ago, or possibly the group is full of idiots and the GM should find better players.

But in reality, it never works out like that. In reality, "the group should make the decision" is the clarion-call of domineering primma-donna players wanting to bully around other players into forcing the GM to follow his agenda so he gets to be the special star of the show.

RPGPundit

Ned the Lonely Donkey · June 10, 2009, 03:21:08 PM

I am da law! Lookit mah suit!

Ned

Haffrung · June 10, 2009, 03:30:49 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;307495But in reality, it never works out like that. In reality, "the group should make the decision" is the clarion-call of domineering primma-donna players wanting to bully around other players into forcing the GM to follow his agenda so he gets to be the special star of the show.

Pretty much. My players want the GM to have absolute authority over the game for two reasons:

A) I'm a good GM and our games work.
B) They trust me more than they trust each other to ensure the game runs smoothly and fairly. The last player to join our group who started frequently interrupting the game to question my judgement found himself opposed by all of the other players. I didn't have to impose my authority - my players stepped in and did it themselves. The message was that if you don't like my rulings and approach to the game, you don't have to play.

aramis · June 10, 2009, 03:47:02 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;307495There's no such thing as "the group". If there's any real moment when all the players agree without coersion or manipulation on something that the GM does not, then in all likelihood the GM is an ass and everyone should have stopped playing with him long ago, or possibly the group is full of idiots and the GM should find better players.

But in reality, it never works out like that. In reality, "the group should make the decision" is the clarion-call of domineering primma-donna players wanting to bully around other players into forcing the GM to follow his agenda so he gets to be the special star of the show.

RPGPundit

Not always. I often put questionable rules issues to vote. I always put house rules to vote.

David R · June 10, 2009, 07:06:37 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;307495There's no such thing as "the group". If there's any real moment when all the players agree without coersion or manipulation on something that the GM does not, then in all likelihood the GM is an ass and everyone should have stopped playing with him long ago, or possibly the group is full of idiots and the GM should find better players.

But in reality, it never works out like that. In reality, "the group should make the decision" is the clarion-call of domineering primma-donna players wanting to bully around other players into forcing the GM to follow his agenda so he gets to be the special star of the show.

RPGPundit

You are wrong Moff Pundit.

Regards,
David R

Seanchai · June 10, 2009, 07:41:32 PM

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, just a right or wrong answer for a particular group.

Personally, as a GM and as a player, I like GMs who basically stick to the rules.

Seanchai