Quote from: RPGPundit;292935There's no question that the success of the PHBII is a major indicator of how successful 4e is overall.  If it ends up resulting that the PHBII sold well, it will be very hard to continue to argue that 4e as a product line is not successful.

RPGPundit

And I think that's good for the hobby, no matter which game we're talking about.

I don't really see, Benoist, how this is an attempt of making you look stupid.

I really don't want to see anyone look stupid. I am often disappointed by this mad dream, however.

Quote from: benoistIf you really realized that people who do not like 4E would not react well to your post, then what reason was there to post it in the first place?

In other words, if Obryn realized that the truth would hurt people's feelings, why did he post it?

Does anyone even remember the flaming keystrokes of truth? I do.

I really, really don't give a crap what you guys play. Seriously. It could be Creeks and Crawdads or whatever else, it's all cool, and I don't care. Knock yourselves out... but give us the same courtesy. As it is, there can be no positive 4e threads here without someone popping up to ruin it. It's ridiculous.

Acknowledging reality--acknowledging the truth is important. I realize that a lot of the same people who couldn't acknowledge D&D4 are the same people who couldn't believe/accept D&D3 was successful either, so I guess it isn't too out of the ordinary.

But yah, PHB2 is pretty good. I'm debuting my half orc warlord today.

As a fan of rpgs in general and as someone who likes 3.5 as much as, if not more than 4e, I am glad to hear the good news.

While sales data doesn't affect me directly, good sales of any RPG could help me find new players in the future.

Here is to hoping that pathfinder also meets with great success.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;292944In other words, if Obryn realized that the truth would hurt people's feelings, why did he post it?

Does anyone even remember the flaming keystrokes of truth? I do.

Acknowledging reality--acknowledging the truth is important. I realize that a lot of the same people who couldn't acknowledge D&D4 are the same people who couldn't believe/accept D&D3 was successful either, so I guess it isn't too out of the ordinary.

I'm the wielder of the flaming keystrokes of truth, and this is me agreeing with your point here.  It would be the height of stupidity to simply bury one's head in denial because they don't like what they're hearing, if its the truth.

Like I said, the PHBII selling well would be extremely strong evidence that 4e is also selling well. I want to wait and get some confirmation on just how well PHBII is doing, that is the real question, but if its true, then trying to ignore or deny that truth just because one's feelings have been hurt is not an option.

RPGPundit

I await the howls of threadcrapping after I post this...


If we are going to go the Flaming Keystrokes of Truth with this topic then we have to acknowledge that it doesn't exist in a vacuum. The ranking data for the 4E PHB2 must be compared to the ranking data of other D&D Core Rulebooks which have come before it in order to see how good the sales are.

Then more detailed questions need to be asked.

Does the 4E PHB2 sell better than the 3E PHB2? How do sales of 4E compare to earlier editions of D&D? Have earlier editions of D&D ever appeared on bestseller book lists? Does this book sell better than the 4E Core Rulebook set? Why is it selling better, if it is? Is the 4E PHB2 selling better because the designers the rules to better fit the consumer than with the 4E Core Rules? Is the 4E PHB2 selling better because they finally included the races and classes which were deliberately left out of the Core Rulebooks that players wanted?

Data can be parsed to say anything if you just look at it from one angle. The 4E PHB2 may be a great seller when compared to Twilight: The Director's Notes, but what does that really tell you besides the fact it compared well to that one other book?

Thanks, folks!

Yeah, I have no doubt that sales will drop sharply next week - I think it's kind of how the market works for highly-anticipated supplements.  This will include pre-orders, which was bound to kick it way up.

Now, if it's still anywhere on the list next week, that's amazing.  I don't think it will be, though, realistically.

-O

Quote from: jeff37923;292962I await the howls of threadcrapping after I post this...

Nothing threadcrappy about this, imho.  It's a series of valid questions, not all of which will have answers - much less answers available to us.

The 4e PHB and Core Set never made it as high as this.  They were on the list, but not to that level.  OTOH, both the 4e PHB(1) and the 4e Core Set were on the list, and they directly poisoned each others' sales numbers.

I don't have marketing data for 3e at hand.  I seem to remember it being a pretty huge deal when something - I don't remember what, but it may have been either the 3.5 core set or the 3.5 PHB2 - hit the list.  My possibly-faulty and not-feeling-like-fact-checking-right-now memory would like to say it was #85ish, but I am quite literally pulling dim recollections out of my ass.  I don't remember anything hitting #4 on WSJ or anywhere near #28 on USA Today.  (D&D books, OTOH, always kill the Games sales on Amazon - and generally do better on Amazon's site rankings than in the general market.  It's all about who's comfortable buying stuff on the internet.)

As for the rest, I have no idea why people are buying it, only that they evidently are.  You can extrapolate from that however you wish, but I think the clearest way to think about it is that people generally only buy supplements for games they're playing or want to play.  I'm sure there's a portion who only got it for Gnomes and Half-Orcs and Druids, but I would be surprised if that were more than a bare percentage of sales.

-O

Quote from: Benoist;292925I think it just shows fanboys are desperate to demonstrate 4E's success.
I wonder how insecure they might feel...

Just when I thought you were reasonable...

Seanchai

Quote from: RPGPundit;292935If it ends up resulting that the PHBII sold well, it will be very hard to continue to argue that 4e as a product line is not successful.

And yet you will. I mean, it's on a best-seller's list and yet that isn't "selling well" in your eyes.

Seanchai

Yeah. I went over the line. Sorry about that.

Frankly I'm even somewhat drawn to PHB II.  I know, I know, but still, it interested me more than BHB I.

Obryn,

 THANK YOU for posting those links and for starting this thread.
 I knew it did prety darn well at my store . We sold out of it the first weekend that it was out.

 If I post that - people will say its just anecdotal from my store or area - but when you post that link - then its proof of something going on.

 Way I look at it: whether or not you 'like' 4/e D&D, any Role Playing Game book that gets noticeable national sales like that is a good thing for the whole hobby/industry.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;293020Way I look at it: whether or not you 'like' 4/e D&D, any Role Playing Game book that gets noticeable national sales like that is a good thing for the who hobby/industry.

Very good point.

Quote from: Koltar;293020Obryn,

 THANK YOU for posting those links and for starting this thread.
 I knew it did prety darn well at my store . We sold out of it the first weekjkend that it was out.

 If I post that - people will say its just anecdotal from my store or area - but when you post that link - then its proof of something going on.

 Way I look at it: whether or not you 'like' 4/e D&D, any Role Playing Game book that gets noticeable national sales like that is a good thing for the who hobby/industry.


- Ed C.

Did your store do the Gameday event?

I helped coordinate the event at my local store- we had 60 players come through- PHB II sold out during the first slot. One guy came in, tried it out, and left with the three core books, the PHBII, and the FR Campaign Guide. I thought that was pretty cool. I also saw younger kids playing, including a 6th grader who came in with his dad along. And a married couple and two kids at one table.

Quote from: David Johansen;293012Frankly I'm even somewhat drawn to PHB II.  I know, I know, but still, it interested me more than BHB I.

If you're not playing 4e, it probably doesn't have a huge amount of utility, I'm sorry to say.  The fluff is fairly low; the book is around 80% crunch.  More fluff than with Martial Power, but less than PHB1, even.

With that said, I think it has some really interesting character classes and concepts that have never really been seen in D&D before.  Or, at least, haven't been seen as their own class.

Quote from: Koltar;293020Obryn,

 THANK YOU for posting those links and for starting this thread.
 I knew it did prety darn well at my store . We sold out of it the first weekjkend that it was out.

Hey, congrats!  I'm glad to hear it!

-O