Quote from: GabrielAnother possible entry for a missed opportunity is the Gundam RPG.  ... Of course, it all fell apart somehow.

The Japanese murdered the Gundam RPG.

QuoteThe game would be a translation of a Japanese RPG which was in turn a licensed use of the Mekton game system.  It would cover the Universal Century era from 0079 to 0083.

Yeah, I saw the book in a Japanese game store. I was so close to buying it, when I realized that the game was exactly Mekton with about 30 extra pages of "setting history", and not much else. There wasn't even any Gundam art in the book from the series (possibly because it would have cost too much to license).

QuoteEarly on, the same excuse as was given for the cancellation of completed Mekton products was given for the cancellation of the Gundam RPG.  Namely that R Talsorian didn't have a big market presence, and that Gundam simply wasn't a recognizable enough brand name to convince distributors to carry the product.

Hmmm. Could have been true.  But here's the problem: The Gundam license in Japan is as popular, convoluted, twisted by red tape and choking lifeless middlemen, as say Star Trek is in the US. Way more so, actually.

The reason being this: About three companies in Japan jointly own the licenses to most of the original series and side-properties. The company that owns the rights to the original Gundam Series is so stingy and twisted that barely anyone tries to get the license anymore from them, and instead work on side-properties.  That's why, for example, all the Gundam Movies and the like are out on DVD in the US (as those licenses are owned by the other companies) but the original series isn't out on DVD, and probably won't be unless that original company goes bankrupt.

Also, when you consider that the companies releasing Gundam in the US have to check with the Japanese license-owning companies every step of the way, any project less than translating an anime or a video game will never have enough money or patience to release anything.

Anyway, to make a long story short, here's the problem:
They start working on a translation. Translation done. Then they send the translation to the US company that distributes Gundam in the US. The US company says "gotta send it to Japan". They send it to Japan. The Japanese company says, "I don't understand this; translate all your work back into Japanese and show it to us". This costs A LOT of money. They do so, and the Japanese company takes months going over each sentence with a fine-tooth-comb. The Japanese company says "Hmmm. I don't want you to post this section here, and that section there. And you can't include any sample characters or mecha that weren't explicitly in the original anime
, because otherwise you'd be rewriting/manipulating our intellectual property."  So R Talsorian goes back and makes the adjustments as requested, and send the script back: "Sorry, please retranslate the whole thing back into Japanese so we can carefully analyze it". The cycle restarts. Sometimes, they find a piece of info that is owned by one of the other companies, and have to forward the whole mess over to them for approval, etc.

It's a pretty insane, soul-sucking nightmare. It explains the deep flaws in Japan's licensing tactics (only huge console games have the budget to even think about negotiations for Gundam properties).  On the side, it also explains why the GoO "Anime and Roleplaying Guides" never included:

1) Sample PCs
2) Sample NPCs that didn't appear in the license
3) Sample locations or events for scenario creation
4) Any new material whatsoever to help gamers create a game in that setting

-Andy

Quote from: Andy KThat's why, for example, all the Gundam Movies and the like are out on DVD in the US (as those licenses are owned by the other companies) but the original series isn't out on DVD, and probably won't be unless that original company goes bankrupt.

Actually, the original Gundam series IS out on DVD (10 discs) in the US under the Bandai/Sunrise label.  At the time when the North Am Gundam RPG was a possibility, the original Gundam was airing on Cartoon Network, as well as 08th MS Team, 0080, and 0083 (which are all out on DVD as well).

Now, maybe licensing red tape did kill the RPG production, but I don't remember it being brought up as a reason at all, and I ate up any information which was dropped about it like a hungry animal.

Quote from: GRIM...
WOTC blowing cash aquiring anything and everything - a lot of it very good - and then killing it off, that was a missed opportunity to build up the industry as a whole on the back of Magic.
...

I wasn't really paying attention at the time... who and what did wotc buy and kill?

Quote from: Geek MessiahYep.  Serenity was very disappointing.   I was looking forward to the game for awhile and they horriable result  was depressing.   A system that not only didn't capture the feel of the genre, but also gets in the way of play

  I think the fact that RPGnet didn't howl for the head of Weiss over that shit is living proof that that place has lost its teeth.  Here's a film derrived from a very grown up and dramatically complex TV show and they hand it over to a company based on the reputation of a writer practically unparalleled when it comes to producing poorly written hogwash.  I mean, Weiss' career is so undeniably built on shit that you'd think she was a coprophiliac sewage worker.

  If her website's anything to go by, it looks like Serenity is the only game that that particular company will ever put out.

  In other words, she wanted to launch a new game company (even though she already had one) so spent a fortune on IP rights to a hot property and then proceeded to drive it into the ground as some form of twisted vanity project written by a no account underling whose only other credits are Dragonlance things.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI think the fact that RPGnet didn't howl for the head of Weiss over that shit is living proof that that place has lost its teeth.  Here's a film derrived from a very grown up and dramatically complex TV show and they hand it over to a company based on the reputation of a writer practically unparalleled when it comes to producing poorly written hogwash.  I mean, Weiss' career is so undeniably built on shit that you'd think she was a coprophiliac sewage worker.

I agree.   I read only a few of her books and I thought they were horriable.  I am not sure if I have ever read one of her books all the way through.    How she got to be so popular is beyond me.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalIf her website's anything to go by, it looks like Serenity is the only game that that particular company will ever put out.

And they have done a poor job supporting it from day one.  Yes, they may have sold out a few printings worth but you have to ask yourself how much money is left after you have paid everyone you employ as well as pay for the license.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalIn other words, she wanted to launch a new game company (even though she already had one) so spent a fortune on IP rights to a hot property and then proceeded to drive it into the ground as some form of twisted vanity project written by a no account underling whose only other credits are Dragonlance things.

I wish a game company more competent had gotten the license.   But they didnt and as you said drove it into the ground.  I know enough people and have heard of enough people going to other systems for their Serenity/Firefly fix.

The only thing they did right was to really try and reach out to the non- or casual gamers out there.  I know a site I write for got a free copy and a few others did too.

But artistically it was clearly a failure.

Quote from: algaubleI wasn't really paying attention at the time... who and what did wotc buy and kill?

Two off the top of my head would be Last Unicorn and Nightfall.  There were other properties and small companies.

The way I see it, MWP gave us a pretty good Serenity sourcebook for .

Hey!  Any truth to the rumor that SJG lost the Robotech license to Palladium?  Or that somebody did?

EDIT: Aso, as my wife adds, too bad about AEG losing the Stargate SG-1 license.  Its not the sytem I woulda chosen for SG-1, but it was nice to have SOMEthing.

Quote from: GRIMTwo off the top of my head would be Last Unicorn and Nightfall.  There were other properties and small companies.

If I'm remembering right, WotC was under the impression that if they bought LUG that the licensed properties would come with them, not realizing that the licenses would revert back to the original owners.

So yeah they killed LUG, that happens all the time in the rest of the world, more important was (imho) the game lines, and had they kept the licenses I don't doubt that the writers would have had continued work under WotC. The weren't trying to kill off a competitor, they were trying to bring the money making potential to WotC. (and they should damn well have asked more questions about the licenses before buying the company!!!)

Not familior with Nightfall offhand, so I won't try to speak to that.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Hey!  Any truth to the rumor that SJG lost the Robotech license to Palladium?  Or that somebody did?

I think I've heard that rumor once or twice.  Despite the complaints I have about Palladium's treatment of Robotech, I absolutely cringe in horror as to what it would have looked like as GURPS Mecha.

Two words and an abbreviation:

Gamma World d20

Nuff said.

Quote from: cnath.rmIf I'm remembering right, WotC was under the impression that if they bought LUG that the licensed properties would come with them, not realizing that the licenses would revert back to the original owners.

So yeah they killed LUG, that happens all the time in the rest of the world, more important was (imho) the game lines, and had they kept the licenses I don't doubt that the writers would have had continued work under WotC. The weren't trying to kill off a competitor, they were trying to bring the money making potential to WotC. (and they should damn well have asked more questions about the licenses before buying the company!!!)

Not familior with Nightfall offhand, so I won't try to speak to that.

Actually there was a leaked memo from inside WOTC that caused a stir back then that revealed that a large part of their plan WAS to buy up and snuff out other companies to reduce their number of competitors.

Typically, I can't find it now and I don't think it was the case (directly) with Nightfall.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalIf her website's anything to go by, it looks like Serenity is the only game that that particular company will ever put out.

Well, except for the Battlestar Galactica RPG that they have the license to produce...

... No, I'm not kidding.

What kills me about MWP is how they respond to any criticism of the finished product with "well, it sold like hotcakes."  That might be relevant were it not for the fact that "Brownshirts" are an irrational fandom that would line up to buy Nathan Filion's bronzed turds by the case lot.  I don't hate the game but I'm not at all convinced that 35,000 sold copies equates to 35,000 games played -- or even 3,500 games played.

KoOS

Quote from: GRIMActually there was a leaked memo from inside WOTC that caused a stir back then that revealed that a large part of their plan WAS to buy up and snuff out other companies to reduce their number of competitors.

Typically, I can't find it now and I don't think it was the case (directly) with Nightfall.

Hmm, interesting, I'd be interested in seeing it should you come across it again. I still think they weren't stupid enough not to want to snag the ST license by absorbing LUG. (not even during the worst years of T$R would they have not realized what that could be worth. )

Quote from: King of Old SchoolWell, except for the Battlestar Galactica RPG that they have the license to produce...

... No, I'm not kidding.

I'm still debating, I may be looking forward to this...

From what I understand, the LUG purchase was made for two reasons:

1. WotC wanted to get its hands on the licenses LUG had.
2. WotC wanted a design studio to handle non-D&D games, mainly licenses.

From what I understand, the Wheel of Time RPG (remember that one?) was meant to be the first in a series of RPGs that drew on different licenses. The licenses that LUG held were part of the deal, but LUG itself (and the talent it had) was another big reason.

The earlier wave of WotC acquisitions (Ars Magica, SLA Industries, Talislanta) was a genuine attempt to form a viable RPG arm of the company. Sales simply weren't there, so the division was dissolved and the games returned to their original owners.