Let's say you are running a game where the characters would have grown up, basically their entire lives, in an environment of ongoing war. In a sci-fi setting, they were mostly born on a fleet ship or on liberated worlds.

Now, their side has generally been winning the war, so morale is high and resources are good, but its certainly possible that in many of the PCs cases that sizeable chunks of their entire family have died in battle.  There are civilians, but over 60% of the population are in the military at any given time.

How would this make for a different society? How would you show this to the players? How would you make sure that the players would get this?

RPGPundit

Unless you wanted to run an 'evil campaign', I don't think you really could do that realistically.

Quote from: RPGPundit;277735How would this make for a different society? How would you show this to the players? How would you make sure that the players would get this?

I'd look to the Spartans and Zulus as models. Regimented, collective child-rearing. Strong sense of collective identity, and corresponding contempt for enemies and foreigners. Status of citizens determined largely by their battlefield accomplishments (can only marry after your cohort wins a battle, etc.)

There's lot of historical information on military cultures. But to second Age of Fable's comment, I think it would be difficult to make such a society admirable or sympathetic in a role-playing game.

Quote from: Haffrung;277742I'd look to the Spartans and Zulus as models. Regimented, collective child-rearing. Strong sense of collective identity, and corresponding contempt for enemies and foreigners. Status of citizens determined largely by their battlefield accomplishments (can only marry after your cohort wins a battle, etc.)

There's lot of historical information on military cultures. But to second Age of Fable's comment, I think it would be difficult to make such a society admirable or sympathetic in a role-playing game.

I had *no* problem doing this in my many Jalan campaigns. The Fonalli Moros were regimented on the Zulu model - children were collectively raised and trained for military duty starting at age 6, remaining in the army until a suitable age was reached - 35 in this case - when they could leave the service, marry, father children, and settle down, though they remained as a mobilizable resource if needed. The PCs never played the Fonalli as evil, though when they played non-Fonalli encountering this cultural model, these outsiders mostly thought of it as evil, or at least thought of the collection and training of children for war part of the culture as evil.

This was probably because of the strong ethical training the children received. This was based on duty, responsibility, and justice. The Fonalli ideal was stern but just. Thus I insist that it all depends greatly on the presentation of the culture to the players, who take their tone from the GM's initial description.

-clash

Like Clash, I can't see the problem with the premise.  ("Evil")

But let's move on to Pundit's question.  I think this is cool and look forward to hearing more details as he sets it up and plays.

Here are some things that popped into my head right off the bat.  You might have thought of them, or they might not work with the system, but here goes.

* Every PC is in the military in some way.

* I really like the idea of families being important (Pundit, you brought up the fact that large chunks of families have died, so I'm going to run with it...)  I think the Players should generate immediate family members, noting how they affected by the war (serving; MIA; KIA; on a conquered planet; living behind lines whatever -- but relate each family member to the war)

* I would have the Players crated three family members that mattered to the PC who have died.  These can be immediate or extended family members.

* Along the lines of the Mongoose Traveller character creation rules, I'd find moments in the character creation process where backstory details about service/a military campaign impinged on the PC's life.... So stats are tied to war moment.  (Again, I don't know the system your using, but that's what I would try to do...)

* I'd think about PC goals within the culture: Is the PC looking forward to getting out?  Is that something they can work toward?  Or do they just have to survive to a certain age or a certain number of terms?  Or is the idea to get glory and rank for Clan/Planet/Family/whatever?  Your game might not actually pay off any of that, but I think just having something on the character sheet that says, "Trying to survive" or "Honor my father's legacy" would help a lot to nail this stuff down for the players.

* Going back to dead family members and long term goals (and again, this is game and scenario dependent), you could have the PCs have Blood Feuds they are carrying.  The PCs might have friends or family members who have died that they want to get some payback on.  I'd make sure these are noted on the character sheet as well. The PCs might have "vengeance memorabilia" --  ragged flags, medals from dead family members or friends, and so on, that they keep close.  I'd have these on the character sheets as well.

* I'd make sure that the the character sheet is marked with a significant event from every term of service -- how they fit in with the war as a whole, and their government as a whole.  (Promotions, commendations, medals, injuries, imprisonment for insubordination, special tasks, locals thinking they were a hero, putting down a rebellion, whatever...)  

* I'm running a game set in the Classic Traveller Imperium right now.  Before we began play, we not only built the PCs, but laid out the history of the PCs campaigns.  We laid out specific worlds where specific events occurred.  My players came up with a bunch of slang based off these incidents, and designed a nose cone logo for their mercenary transport ship.

This all took place in the context of a sector map I created, showing the movement of interstellar boundaries that took place while their PCs were in the marines before play began.  

My game is about mercs, but your set up might benefit from a sense of how the interstellar boundaries have moved, where the Players have been relative to them before play began, where their home worlds are relative to those boundaries and so on, as well as marking which worlds significant family members are on.

That's some stuff off the top of my head.

Christopher

Quote from: Age of Fable;277738Unless you wanted to run an 'evil campaign', I don't think you really could do that realistically.

Evil campaign ? The use of a martial society as a campaign context doesn't necessarily imply "now the players will have to play evil characters".

Quote from: Haffrung;277742But to second Age of Fable's comment, I think it would be difficult to make such a society admirable or sympathetic in a role-playing game.

Who said it had to be admirable or sympathetic ? I'd love to play in a Spartan RPG, exploring what it is to be part of this very foreign society. Doesn't mean I personally want to live the way the Spartans did or advocate their moral codes and behaviors.

You guys are weird

Quote from: boulet;277751Who said it had to be admirable or sympathetic ?

Not me.

A society like that CAN sometimes be sympathetic. I can think of two possible examples:

1. Klingon Empire as shown during ST: Next Generation and ST: Deep Dish Nine.

2. Israel, 1948 to the present.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;277762A society like that CAN sometimes be sympathetic. I can think of two possible examples:

1. Klingon Empire as shown during ST: Next Generation and ST: Deep Dish Nine.

2. Israel, 1948 to the present.


- Ed C.

Bingo, Ed! If such a culture is portrayed as sympathetic, the PCs will treat it as sympathetic until proven otherwise. The GM is the PC's window on the world, somewhat like the press is IRL.

-clash

The human rebels in The Terminator movies look like a 'Good' example.  

Child Soldiers - when they muster up some NPCs for their next suicide mission, give them a bunch of 12-16 year olds with guns.   Make half of them girls.   Then blow them apart like rag dolls full of meatsauce.

Like in Spartan culture I would make a very ritualized culture : for instance when kids reach specific ages they have to undergo difficult challenges.

I like Christopher's suggestion of an omnipresence of heroes memorabilia, problems of honor, vengeance and duties that transmit through generations. Another angle would be to develop an underground culture where forms of art or activities that aren't matching the military paradigm thrive in secret.

Quote from: boulet;277770Like in Spartan culture I would make a very ritualized culture...

I like Christopher's suggestion of an omnipresence of heroes memorabilia, problems of honor, vengeance and duties that transmit through generations...

...forms of art...

I think you could mush all these things together into something interesting.

People tend to need something to fight for if they're going to risk their lives -- country, a principle, family, a loved one, fellow soldiers... something.  Military states will have symbols or gods, or clans will have flags, or whatnot.  Even in an SF setting, human beings respond to something bigger than themselves...

I don't know how you're setting up your setting, but whether its the state level or the family level (or a mix of everything in-between), I'd make some decisions about what concepts or cause the culture is fighting for (or how it defines it -- the family level, the state level, and so on), and then figure out what the SYMBOL for that is.  (In the U.S. for example, at the highest conceptual level, we're fighting to protect the constitution, but there are plenty of other levels.)

However that works out, I would then allow the players to build their version of how that symbols looks or feels to their PC.  If it's a flag, where does it appear on the PCs armor, and what does it look like.  If clan or family or particular planet matters, let the Player design the badge/dagger/whatever.

I've found that when I let the Players do some of the work of coloring in the lines I've made, the buy-in is faster and their commitment to the world concepts clearer.

Christopher

Quote from: RPGPundit;277735How would this make for a different society? How would you show this to the players? How would you make sure that the players would get this?

I doubt my idea is going to be very popular but.....

Make the PCs "outsiders". Either former military personnel or mere "civilians". Emphasize the privileges the military class gets - medical benefits, social status etc.

The media will be all about the war effort - mostly propaganda and the PCs would notice the issues or problems that their society faces which is not covered by the mainstream media.

Military law could be the law of the land. How would civilans who are not members of the culture take to it ?

Walking into an entertainment establishment catering to the military - and there are plenty of them around - itself would be uncomfortable experience for those who don't share the camaraderie of most of the clientele.

Also, the training and discipline soldiers get would be a stark contrast to the abilities of average citizens. You don't want to get into a bar fight with these people.....

Regards,
David R

CJ Cherryh's Union comes to mind.