4e underselling 3e

Vadrus · December 04, 2008, 05:29:36 AM

Quote from: noisms;271125Do you understand what in God's name that actually means? Because I don't.

It's selling lower than expected through normal rpg outlets but he doesn't know how well it's selling through book shops and online retailers like Amazon probably.

Vadrus

Pseudoephedrine · December 04, 2008, 07:36:34 AM

Quote from: Vadrus;271127It's selling lower than expected through normal rpg outlets but he doesn't know how well it's selling through book shops and online retailers like Amazon probably.

Vadrus

Anecdotally, the 4e PHB has been featured in both the Staff Picks and Top Sellers section of my local Chapters bookstore since its debut, and it has remained there through the Christmas season so far.

noisms · December 04, 2008, 08:00:21 AM

Quote from: Vadrus;271127It's selling lower than expected through normal rpg outlets but he doesn't know how well it's selling through book shops and online retailers like Amazon probably.

I wonder if that says more about the death of the FLGS than anything else.

Nicephorus · December 04, 2008, 09:11:43 AM

Quote from: Vadrus;271127It's selling lower than expected through normal rpg outlets but he doesn't know how well it's selling through book shops and online retailers like Amazon probably.

Vadrus

4e books have ~3/4 of the top 20 Amazon spots in fantasy and roleplaying items. So it's doing relatively well. But it's hard to tell how well 4e is doing at bookstores relative to how well 3e did.

Sprange probably has contacts with game distributors but not book distributors.

Melan · December 04, 2008, 10:01:01 AM

For what it's worth, here is Chris Pramas's take on the situation. Some of the more interesting parts:

QuoteThe only commentary I have taken seriously has come from the two halves of the distribution system: the game trade and the book trade. In separate conversations, an executive in the game trade and the former RPG buyer for a major chain of bookstores both told me the same thing: 4E sold in well but follow-up sales were slow. One of them told me that 4E supplements were selling at the same level as 3E supplements at the beginning of this year (i.e. 8 years into 3E's lifecycle).

QuoteWhat is unambiguous to my mind is that the third party market for 4E material is a shadow of its former self. By early 2001 you had publishers selling huge amounts of d20 product and more companies jumping into the fray every week. This time there is a trickle of product and no one is seeing the gangbuster sales of 3E's heyday as far as I can tell. The GSL revision has yet to appear and the d20 diaspora continues to splinter. If WotC was serious about wanting the support of third party publishers, the GSL has been a strategic failure to date. If the goal was to cull the third party market though, mission accomplished.

Aos · December 04, 2008, 10:26:20 AM

Not that it matters, really, but Amazon did not have its current presence in 2001. Why would anyone who knows the price difference between say the three core books at the store and the gift set available online buy it at the store? I've bought three games in a real store in the last five years, one was a last minute gift, the other was something I didn't want to wait for, and the last was $10.00. I've bought (if you just count books) well over twice that much stuff online.

Balbinus · December 04, 2008, 10:57:16 AM

Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey;271126My feeling is that they are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that 3e was a pretty solid game that delivers a good play experience (in the "sweet spot", at least, it's a bit of beast at high levels) without too much tweaking or head scratching.

If you're happy with 3e, I can't see a reason to "trade up". The same could be said of 2e, obviously, but I think 3e is a much, much better game, and thus there are more significant reasons to not change than exist for 3e to 4e.

Ned

That makes sense, my wholly unscientific impression is that more people were happy with 3e than were with 2e.

flyerfan1991 · December 04, 2008, 01:21:52 PM

Quote from: noisms;271135I wonder if that says more about the death of the FLGS than anything else.

It might also say more about the discounting factor of online merchants. There have been numerous threads over in BGG about the same thing happening to boardgames and how it's undercutting the FLGS, but when a 4E supplement pushing barely over 200 pages has a list price of $30, that doesn't exactly help the FLGS. One could make the arguement that if companies want more sales, they should find ways to lower the list prices. $70 for a Eurogame like Agricola or $90 for the 4E core books seem a steep intro point for a lot of people to handle.

--Mike L.

Koltar · December 04, 2008, 01:29:42 PM

Online silliness NEVER helps a brick & mortar FLGS.

- Ed C.

Seanchai · December 04, 2008, 01:43:01 PM

Quote from: noisms;271135I wonder if that says more about the death of the FLGS than anything else.

Could be. In terms of price, my FLGS can't even compare to Borders when I have a coupon in hand. Forget about competing with Amazon, it's Z Stores, eBay, etc.

(Of course, I still make weekly visits to my FLGS as they have the best selection of RPG and related materials...)

Seanchai

Aos · December 04, 2008, 02:25:52 PM

Quote from: flyerfan1991;271204It might also say more about the discounting factor of online merchants. There have been numerous threads over in BGG about the same thing happening to boardgames and how it's undercutting the FLGS, but when a 4E supplement pushing barely over 200 pages has a list price of $30, that doesn't exactly help the FLGS. One could make the arguement that if companies want more sales, they should find ways to lower the list prices. $70 for a Eurogame like Agricola or $90 for the 4E core books seem a steep intro point for a lot of people to handle.

--Mike L.

$104.00 for the 4e books today at Hastings in Albuquerque. $66.12 on amazon- and you can get it shipped for free.
@Ed, it's not so much that folks are being cheap or greedy when they buy online, though, for me it's the difference between getting a game and not getting a game. Period.

jgants · December 04, 2008, 02:30:06 PM

I've bought all my D&D books through Barnes and Noble. By buying online, I get a percent off just for ordering online + the percent I get for being a member. Of course, I always wait until I get a coupon (because they email me one every few weeks), so I get even more off. And if you pre-order, you get even more off.

It just doesn't make sense to buy full-price in a store if you can get it online for nearly 50% off. I might buy other RPG stuff in a FLGS, but never a D&D book. It's too easy, and far cheaper, just to buy online.

Nicephorus · December 04, 2008, 02:35:16 PM

Quote from: jgants;271227It just doesn't make sense to buy full-price in a store if you can get it online for nearly 50% off. I might buy other RPG stuff in a FLGS, but never a D&D book. It's too easy, and far cheaper, just to buy online.

It gets to a point where you have to ask yourself how much more you're willing to pay to support a store. It's easy to shrug off a 10% discount but not a 50% discount.

KenHR · December 04, 2008, 02:37:37 PM

I am both cheap and greedy. If I can find a product at a drastically reduced price, I will buy it at that reduced price. The LGSs in my area don't really offer much in the way of added value for me to ignore the price reduction. Not to mention the fact that their service tends to suck, the employees have little knowledge of their stock or smug douchey 'tudes (or both), and they're not keen on cleanliness (either the store or their employees).

Ian Absentia · December 04, 2008, 02:44:25 PM

Since we're talking about purchase habits now, I usually wait until the product has been out for three to five years, then pick up a pristine, barely-used copy from the local Half Price Books. I'm that cheap, and I like to wait and see if people are playing it a couple of years down the road. I waited about seven years before taking the plunge into 3e.

I will buy usually only buy game books new and from the FLGS if I'm very familiar with the author and really want to support both him and the new product line, and if I really want to support either Aron or Stacey. Generally it takes something really special to get me to buy a book new, and then I usually want to give my money to someone I know personally.

!i!