Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;268710I probably should...

I know where you can find some olde school resources...  

I thought the GM was a douche when I read the links, and seeing his "responses"  just clarifies he's a giant bag of shit. He picked on a newbie, apparently because "OH MY GOD the new girl who has never roleplayed in her life doesn't understand everything yet, and instead of helping her, I'll be a big as piece of shit as I possibly can."


I swear, the faggoty ass White Wolf Games always attract jackasses.


YMMV.

Holy crapola, Batman!

I remember these from the old WW forums years ago when the Draconian Garden Gnome first posted them there. They were very amusing to read then too.

But the high and mighty attitude here with the name calling of DGG? As if everyone here is perfect? I wager you all were dicks at one point in your gaming careers (and IRL). And from all indications, some still are...

Quote from: Hazzurath;268835Holy crapola, Batman!

I remember these from the old WW forums years ago when the Draconian Garden Gnome first posted them there. They were very amusing to read then too.

But the high and mighty attitude here with the name calling of DGG? As if everyone here is perfect? I wager you all were dicks at one point in your gaming careers (and IRL). And from all indications, some still are...

I wasn't.  Then again, as shown in another thread, I was to the GM Screen born.

Quote from: Hazzurath;268835But the high and mighty attitude here with the name calling of DGG? As if everyone here is perfect? I wager you all were dicks at one point in your gaming careers (and IRL). And from all indications, some still are...

One doesn't have to be perfect to recognize that someone else is a dick.  I have certainly been a dick at times in the past -- and I think that makes it all the more important that dickish behavior should be pointed out rather than tolerated.  I have benefited from people giving me better advice.  If I behave like a dick, I'd prefer for people to tell me and make me think.  (That doesn't mean that I will necessarily agree, but it may cause some self-reflection.)  

One of the ways that I do agree with Pundit is that we should deal more firmly with lawncrappers.  Too often, I think that the gaming social scene tolerates unacceptable behavior -- unwilling to give bad reviews of a game, or of a given person's campaign.  By not calling others on nasty behaviors, we make the RPG hobby as a whole a worse social scene.

Quote from: Hazzurath;268835Holy crapola, Batman!

I remember these from the old WW forums years ago when the Draconian Garden Gnome first posted them there. They were very amusing to read then too.

But the high and mighty attitude here with the name calling of DGG? As if everyone here is perfect? I wager you all were dicks at one point in your gaming careers (and IRL). And from all indications, some still are...

So you're one of the few that remember when the forum was still green? )

Glad to see there are some old-timers still around.

Quote from: Gabriel2;268751DGG, I had forgotten about this whole thread.  I had some geek rage going that day, and I must admit your articles captivated me and kept me reading.

Reading my posts, I seems my point was "This GM is a dick."  That's certainly the most obvious interpretation, but it wasn't entirely what I was getting at at the time.

My point was more along the lines of "Michelle became the player she was BECAUSE the GM was a dick."  It's a subtle distinction, and you probably won't find great solace in it, but it is more what I was getting at.  It was a topic which was bugging me at the time.  I was perceiving a lot of complaints about bad players and I'm of the opinion that many bad players aren't born, they are crafted and forged by bad play experiences.  Unfortunately, I found your articles exactly what I needed to illustrate the point I was trying to articulate.

I think I sufficiently explained my point of view of the articles.  Now you're here to provide your side of the story so it isn't a one sided affair of my interpretation.  At this point I don't really see anything I need to readdress.

Anyway, welcome to the boards.  Since I ripped into you so hard you might be happy to know I don't actually spend much time contributing here, so you need not worry much about any other geek rage pieces like the one at the beginning of this thread in response to your posts.

Sorry gabriel I missed your post.

Considering this is the first time I am being heavily criticized ten years after the fact and that I have never heard of "geek rage" (what is that anyway?) I am not worried.

People take from the CoM whatever they want. I can't control that. Yes, we were a dysfunctional group to some degree, and hindsight being 20/20, there are some things I wished I could have done differently...but I wouldn't change any of the things that people here accuse me of being a dick for.

I stand firm by my decisions.

Your point though, is not withought merit. Sometimes it takes a good GM to create good players and sometimes all it takes is one bad GM for people to scoff at the game (or the hobby) entirely.

Quote from: jhkim;268856One doesn't have to be perfect to recognize that someone else is a dick.  I have certainly been a dick at times in the past -- and I think that makes it all the more important that dickish behavior should be pointed out rather than tolerated.  I have benefited from people giving me better advice.  If I behave like a dick, I'd prefer for people to tell me and make me think.  (That doesn't mean that I will necessarily agree, but it may cause some self-reflection.)

Precisely.

I learned D&D with a group of players who murdered newbie characters at every opportunity.  I was their whipping boy.  Of my two earliest characters, one was crushed by a fellow PC's 100 foot tall adamantite golem "familiar" and the other was taken out behind a tavern, beaten to near death, and then the other players described in great detail how they mutilated his genitalia.

What I took from this is that D&D was about fucking the other players over.  My next characters were geared towards killing other members of the party.  I didn't plan to go to the dungeon and operate as a team.  I concocted plans like murdering the party mage, stealing his spellbook, and then selling it.  That was how I had learned the game was played.

It wasn't until I was playing a game with my best friend and his brother I realized what I was doing.  I had made a Chaotic Evil Fighter (because Good alignment just meant you were stupid meat to be murdered by the other party members).  I was trying to kill the other fighter in the party to steal his sword, which was better than mine.  I kept on missing.  Finally, after I had been at this for a prolonged period of time, my best friend's brother asked, "What the fuck is wrong with you?"

That began snapping gaming into focus for me.  I realized that I was becoming the same kind of player those earlier people were.  Everything got better from there on out.
 

Quote from: jhkim;268856One of the ways that I do agree with Pundit is that we should deal more firmly with lawncrappers.  Too often, I think that the gaming social scene tolerates unacceptable behavior -- unwilling to give bad reviews of a game, or of a given person's campaign.  By not calling others on nasty behaviors, we make the RPG hobby as a whole a worse social scene.

I've just recently been on one of my Palladium tirades and this is one of the key factors behind that as well.

Gamers as a whole are so ready to forgive any flaw in a product.  "Just house rule it" becomes a deflection for all criticism.    That's how it relates to the topics I'm thinking about right now, anyway.

Quote from: DGG;268891Sorry gabriel I missed your post.

Considering this is the first time I am being heavily criticized ten years after the fact and that I have never heard of "geek rage" (what is that anyway?) I am not worried.

People take from the CoM whatever they want. I can't control that. Yes, we were a dysfunctional group to some degree, and hindsight being 20/20, there are some things I wished I could have done differently...but I wouldn't change any of the things that people here accuse me of being a dick for.

I stand firm by my decisions.

Your point though, is not withought merit. Sometimes it takes a good GM to create good players and sometimes all it takes is one bad GM for people to scoff at the game (or the hobby) entirely.

I'm a big proponent of agreeing to disagree.  Since you seem to be the same way, then I got no beef with you.

Yeah, I think you did some stupid things as a GM.  I've walked out of games with GMs doing that kind of stuff.  I've done stupid shit too.

Recently, I was GMing my Robotech derived game.  My player had his character's arm cut off.  He flew into a rage.  He wanted to know what the fuck I was picking on him for.

It turns out, I had a disturbing history of severing his character's arms.  It wasn't anything I had thought about.  This is in a game where a cloned replacement is damn near an outpatient surgery.  However, the player certainly didn't see it that way.  I was constantly hacking off their arm.  That's a pretty powerful metaphor.  Seriously, whenever I see Luke, Anakin, or that chick in Kill Bill lose their arms, I wince.  I realize they're totally fucked and at the mercy of whoever they're in opposition to, much more so than a simple gunshot to the gut or anything equally as lethal would be.  I was regularly doing something extremely heinous to his character, and he was sick of it.  

There's a saying, Worf and Klingons in general are the biggest pussies in the universe.  Why's that?  Because every time the authors need to show something is bad ass, they have them kick the Klingons around.  What really comes across is that the Klingons and Worf get their ass handed to them by every guest villain on Star Trek.  My player was feeling like Worf, only get got to lose his arm every time something showed up.  I promised to try to mend my ways and I try to stay attentive of such things now.

Another thing I did which has earned me the eternal emnity of a player was have his character's girlfriend turn lesbian.  The NPC in question had a long history of deep friendship with another female NPC.  We all joked they were lesbians.  I have a fairly teenage mindset.  So, I had the two NPCs be caught in hallway in a romantic embrace.  I was just thinking of a funny little scene.  A bit of cheesecake perhaps.  It would be done, everyone would giggle, say "I always knew" and that would be that.

However, the player threw a fit.  What didn't occur to me was that he didn't see it as a little joke with some RPG cheesecake.  He saw it as a direct offront to his characters' and his own masculinity.  He seriously took it as me impunging his manhood and ability to satisfy a woman.  The other players making light of the situation certainly didn't help.  The player sadly holds a grudge against me to this day.  If I had it to do over, if I had known it meant that much to him, I certainly would have done things differently.

Anyway, that's all.

*deleted*

Oops, there's three pages to this thread, and this post is now totally off topic!

Some questions for DGG:

Has Michelle ever read your chronicles?

If you and your group did not enjoy playing with Michelle, why did you continue to do so?

Is Michelle still hot?

Quote from: Hazzurath;268835Holy crapola, Batman!

I remember these from the old WW forums years ago when the Draconian Garden Gnome first posted them there. They were very amusing to read then too.

But the high and mighty attitude here with the name calling of DGG? As if everyone here is perfect? I wager you all were dicks at one point in your gaming careers (and IRL). And from all indications, some still are...

And now we get the friend who just happens to find the thread and shows up to defend him.

Assuming it's not just a sockpuppet anyway.

The patheticness continues unabated.

Reading this trainwreck I'm glad that when it comes to new players (gamers) I don't emphasise rules or setting detail. This stuff, they will discover on their own (or maybe never).

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;268983Reading this trainwreck I'm glad that when it comes to new players (gamers) I don't emphasise rules or setting detail. This stuff, they will discover on their own (or maybe never).

Regards,
David R

I have found the best way is usually by osmosis. A newbie plays enough to learn what the group knows and to the detail that the group cares about. I always make them aware of this when I am walking them through learning, as in telling them they may need to learn more when/if they join a new group. It is just the nature of the game.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWelt;268986I have found the best way is usually by osmosis. A newbie plays enough to learn what the group knows and to the detail that the group cares about. I always make them aware of this when I am walking them through learning, as in telling them they may need to learn more when/if they join a new group. It is just the nature of the game.

Bill

Yeah, this is a good way to do it. I take the easy way out. When a new player joins the group, I normally start a new game esp created for the newbie. So, let's say that he or she likes something in the spy genre, that's what I run. This way everyone is more or less on the same page when it comes to setting detail. As for rules, since I suck at system stuff, sooner rather than later, the newbie knows more than me.

Regards,
David R