Quote from: Settembrini;244140@Jason:
Why can´t I just use GURPS to do such a scenario?
Why a different game?

Please elaborate!

'Cos GURPS hit points aren't called Worth! Roleplaying your loss of worth must surely make it all - ahem, worthwhile.

Quote from: the authourSee there are tons of popular rpgs, hippie, indie, mainstream, where the objectives are to fuck people's shit up, put on over on someone, kill, maim, hurt, win, be notorious, save yourself, your loved ones, kill your enemy, live, die, do something heroic. And this game is no different.

From the sounds of it, not exactly. The most popular rpgs are those which allow for a variety of playstyles, in a variety of settings.  Apparently this just does the African-American slave narrative. That's not wrong or anything, it's just that in its focus on one particular kind of thing, it's different from other rpgs. So this game is different. Narrower.

Quote from: the authourSlave narratives are about people who happen to be slaves, but are people first.

And stories of abused wives and children, child soldiers, widows of Srebenica victims, heroin addicts - these are all stories about people who happen to be those suffering sorts of people, but are people first.

Doesn't make 'em fun subjects for a game, though.

Quote from: the authourSo there's this common ground that I'm inviting people to stand on. I'm trying to show you that in this instance, "black history" doesn't exist. This is American history, and you have as much right to claim it, warts and all, as I do.

I take two things from this.

The first is that your aim is to educate us. Judging from the current state of the USA, there can be no doubt that more education about the history of slavery, and probably more importantly, the history of black-white relations after slavery - segregation took another hundred years to end, after all, and even today blacks are prevented from voting by various means - there's no doubt that education about these things is good.

But is an rpg the best way to do it? Is it any good as a way at all? If as is being reported here, Baker's words that you've never gamed before are true, then you may be unaware of the culture of roleplaying games and gamers, and the way game sessions go. Just as books and novels have their limits as media, so too do roleplaying game sessions. I recommend playing some games to learn a bit more about the limits of them.

The second is that you seem to be assuming that all your readers and players are American. Broadening your own view to take in the world outside the US could be useful even for this game. For example, you could have it set in earlier periods in history, or let people play through the scenario of being kidnapped by Africans of different tribes and taken onto ships.

Addressed as it is to an American audience, it holds no real interest for me, or for 95.5% of the world.

Edit: I should add that it appears Jackalope was insufferably rude. He has problems with women, pay him no mind.

Quote from: droog;244002I'm trying to show you that in this instance, "black history" doesn't exist. This is American history, and you have as much right to claim it, warts and all, as I do.

It's lines like this that make me glad to be part of the RPG community, cat-fighting and all.

-=Grim=-

The setting is generalizable, to a point.  She discusses various alternate settings in the text, including the West Indies and contemporary West African cocoa plantations.

You're Australian, right?  Can you think of any period in your own nation's history that might be remotely applicable?

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;244134...that this shit ain't gaming at all.

Uh. How is it not?

(1) Do you take the role of an imaginary character? Check.

(2) Is there task resolution through mechanics using dice, cards, coins, etc.? Check.

(3) Is there one person at the table weaving the world for the imaginary characters to interact with (not mandatory)? Check.

(4) Character advancement and development? Check.

Yep, it's gaming. The topic might be one you disagree with, but it's gaming.

-=Grim=-

P.S. I'd probably do it with Savage Worlds.

Kyle, among the very earliest RPGs are Bunnies and Burrows, En Garde, and Superhero 2044. Can you explain how SAJ is more tightly focused than these?

On the rest of it, I for one wash my hands. Perhaps you're hoping that Julia will magically appear if you put these questions, but I think the answers are implicit in what I already posted.

Honestly, man, your comfort zone is about 2mm wide.

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;244160You're Australian, right?  Can you think of any period in your own nation's history that might be remotely applicable?

There isn't anything that has quite the resonance of the American slave trade. Part of that is the difference in scale. There were so many slaves shipped to America that they could have their own society. Aborigines were enslaved, but not so blatantly and not in such large numbers. The Pacific Islanders shipped in to Queensland are a possibility, but again, it's a much smaller phenomenon.

Maybe a convict game.

And for the trifecta:

I think it would be cool if people got the idea to do such a game in GURPS (or other system of choice), if they've never done so before. I haven't yet played SAJ, so I can't speak to how it does at reinforcing its subject matter as a game.

A more old-school example is that while I never bought the boxed set Monster Coliseum for RQ3 (deeming it unnecessary tripe), I used the idea to run part of a campaign with the players as gladiator slaves.

I don't think I would be able to play SAJ, personally. My white guilt would get the best of me, I'm sure. Part of that has to do with being a member of the profession that was at one time steeped in the worst kinds of "Race Science." We're well past it now, it would seem, but still... However, it does sound like a pretty cool premise for a campaign, especially with the magic thrown in.

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;244147Saphim's right!  You could play GURPS: Slavery.  Maybe there's already a disadvantage to cover it.

Here are two of the things that Steal Away Jordan does that I think are unique and brilliant, and - because they mess with some core assumptions - probably a direct result of Julia Ellingboe not having a long history with roleplaying:

1.  Players don't name their own characters, the GM does.  It's a simple thing but, from the start, it absolutely sets the tone.  There are aspects of your character over which you have no control, no autonomy, no authority.  

2.  The GM is not privy to the players plans.  The GM leaves the room while the players articulate their goals.  This is essentially point one, in reverse - aspirations and dreams are the only autonomy the characters have, and they are carefully guarded and can't be taken away.

Thanks for making all the points I ever wanted to make.

Quote from: Aos;244208I don't think I would be able to play SAJ, personally. My white guilt would get the best of me, I'm sure. Part of that has to do with being a member of the profession that was at one time steeped in the worst kinds of "Race Science." We're well past it now, it would seem, but still... However, it does sound like a pretty cool premise for a campaign, especially with the magic thrown in.

Honestly Aos, I don't mean to be rude or anything but I think you're overthinking this. I think the designer has done the hard work by contextualizing the subject matter into something resembling a game. Now it's up to the individual to make something of it (anything) around the gaming table. I hope I'm making sense.

Regards,
David R

No, I get you David. I over think everything, really. It is one of my many, many flaws.

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;2441472.  The GM is not privy to the players plans.  The GM leaves the room while the players articulate their goals.  This is essentially point one, in reverse - aspirations and dreams are the only autonomy the characters have, and they are carefully guarded and can't be taken away.

Outside of Burning Wheel, is there a game where PCs typically tell DMs their plans? I'll occasionally mention a long-term goal to the DM that my character is going to pursue, but my group tends to keep that stuff to ourselves outside of in-character explanations to other PCs and NPCs.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;244334Outside of Burning Wheel, is there a game where PCs typically tell DMs their plans? I'll occasionally mention a long-term goal to the DM that my character is going to pursue, but my group tends to keep that stuff to ourselves outside of in-character explanations to other PCs and NPCs.

I know that players typically discuss their immediate short range plans (i.e. tactics) in front of the GM.

I don't really understand how a game would work if the GM leaves the room while the players discuss their plans.  Doesn't that force the players to discuss their plans while blind to the world?  Without the GM there to answer questions about the world around them, it would seem impossible to make plans.  Unless players can just make up elements of the world necessary to their plans.  But that introduces a host of problems in of itself.

Since the author is unfamiliar with gaming culture, with things like optimizers, power-gamers, twinks, and pros-from-dover, the game will be easily broken by any player who doesn't conform to the very, very limited range of play styles the game supports.  That's where the swinishness comes in: the game isn't limited, other play styles are just inferior and don't need to be addressed.

It's really not a game.  It's a teaching tool disguised as a game.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;244334Outside of Burning Wheel, is there a game where PCs typically tell DMs their plans? I'll occasionally mention a long-term goal to the DM that my character is going to pursue, but my group tends to keep that stuff to ourselves outside of in-character explanations to other PCs and NPCs.

What both of those devices do, I think (the secrets and the names), is to encourage a sense of bonding together against the Man. It's explicit that (a) you don't talk to the GM and it's implicit that (b) you do talk to the other players.