I've been discussing this issue with my friend recently. That in groups we know (fantasy RPGs mostly) player characters don't respond to nobles and such powerful figures in adequate manner. They lack politeness, respect, manners and such things.

As a post-communist country, there is this attitute toward nobles in real-life as well, so we were wondering if this is culture-specific issues that manifest itself in RPGs as well or is does this happen all around the globe, in countries where aristocracy still has its place in society or where was no such exposure to egalitarianism as in here.

So what are your experience with behavior towards NPC nobles in your games. Feel free to elaborate your response as you see fit :-)

In theory, we have an aristocracy in this country, but in practice most Britishers don't feel much need to show deference to them, so we kind of have the same problem.

Of course, this problem is exacerbated in games where the GM also has little sympathy for aristocracy (in which case the nobles in question will probably be acting like jerks), or simply doesn't understand how it works (in which case they might well have unreasonable expectations of how the nobility and common folk are meant to interact).

This scene has played out in a few of my games:

DM: The guard leads you down a long hall and through a massive pair of heavy wooden doors, revealing a cavernous throne room.  At the end of a long deep purple carpet you see a dias, upon which sits two large thrones.  A man in rich clothing sits in one of the thrones, another man stands by his side whispering in his ear.  Both seem to make passing notice of your appearance.  Guards line each of the long walls, perhaps thirty of them in total.  As you enter, a young page steps out from the shadows and announces your presence.

Player: Yo, king fuckhead!  How's it hanging?  I hear your dumbass desperately needs our help.  So bitchola, you gonna open the treasure vaults?  This is going to cost you!

DM: The king's eyes widen, and the guards in the room suddenly become tense.  The man standing by the king suddenly stiffens, standing straight and tall.  He gives you an imperious glare and motions to the guards, who begin moving towards you.  He turns to the king and says "My most sincere apologies my liege, I was told these men were heroes, not mere common varlets and ruffians.  I shall have them removed at once." He gestures to the guards, and they begin moving towards you.  "Send them to the dungeons, perhaps they will learn some manners!" shouts the chamberlain.  Do you want to resist, grovel, or run?

A lot depends on how they're presented. I know one way of handling it was to make one of the PC's a duke. Now they had to put up with rudeness like they dished out, and now I could watch them squirm when they discovered its a lot harder to put up with, and you can't really do much about it without becoming a monster to the masses.

On the other hand, I think Vlad Tepes managed quite well for a long time..

Lese-majeste is usually a capital crime.

Jackalope, that sounds like my group, only here's how ours play out:

DM: You are led to the throne room, Lackeys bow and scrape, introductions are made. What do you do?

Player: Does he have magic? I attack.

DM: He casts Meteor Swarm. You take... (dice)... lots of damage. Are you dead yet?

Player: Maybe we should listen to what he has to say...

Alnag, it seems most of the groups I've played with have a decided anti- nobility, or at least strongly insubordinate streak. Maybe it's an American thing, too?

All my PCs are like a combination of Conan and Rodney Dangerfield's character in Caddyshack. But we don't have much interaction with the aristocracy in out games- unless it's to run from their soldiers.

Quote from: droog;234944Lese-majeste is usually a capital crime.

The few times it's been a problem in one of my games, I've called a small aside:

"Look, guys.  I realise that none of you are really into roleplaying all of this high-blown, flowery court talk, and I'm not into ruining the game with a spate of summary executions, so, unless anyone tells me specifically otherwise, we'll all assume that you're addressing the lord with the appropriate degree of respect and deference.  Right?"

In more dicey situations, I've required die-rolls against "Etiquette" or "Courtly Manners" or appropirate skill, but I don't like levelling catastrophic results against players for social interaction that they might otherwise be able to control through roleplay.

!i!

Personally, when I GM I tend not to have scenes where lowly scum get admitted into the presence of the king because he wants them to do a job, because what's the point of being king if you can't get people to do that sort of thing for you? And what sort of work would a leader farm out to dodgy lower-class scum in the first place?

No, when lower-class scum PCs in my games get given royal missions they are contacted by dodgy men in the back rooms of pubs who are evasive about who their actual employers are but can offer money, favours, and contacts in high places for people who are willing to do something foul for their country. Encounters with the king himself are more likely to happen in campaigns where the PCs are explicitly meant to be nobility, or at the very least in the ruling classes, so a) they'll be assumed to know how to address the King, even if the players don't, and b) if they're actual royals there can be assumed to be a certain amount of informality anyway.

On a last point: when people go to see the Queen of England these days, they are carefully briefed on etiquette before they are admitted to their presence. Using an NPC to do this might be helpful for those players who aren't aware that their characters are supposed to be being formal and polite in these circumstances.

Oh, and I tend not to have nobles who actually kill people for saying "fuck" in their presence; aristocrats in my games generally understand that the common people don't really know how to behave, and so can on occasion be very forgiving of this sort of thing, simply because they don't expect commoners to behave any better.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;234950The few times it's been a problem in one of my games, I've called a small aside:

"Look, guys.  I realise that none of you are really into roleplaying all of this high-blown, flowery court talk, and I'm not into ruining the game with a spate of summary executions, so, unless anyone tells me specifically otherwise, we'll all assume that you're addressing the lord with the appropriate degree of respect and deference.  Right?"

I've done pretty much the same thing.

Quote from: Warthur;234951Personally, when I GM I tend not to have scenes where lowly scum get admitted into the presence of the king because he wants them to do a job, because what's the point of being king if you can't get people to do that sort of thing for you? And what sort of work would a leader farm out to dodgy lower-class scum in the first place?

Suicide missions.  The kind PCs are best at.

I have worked in the past where the nobility is the primary platform for gaining access to the best equipment and the best rewards (like land). Typically I give offer of a large run down, possibly very profitable estate that lies on a direct line between the nobility and a war zone. Almost every time it has worked wonderfully.

The players to pump money into the economy by building/producing and hiring. It protects the nobility and/or monarchs flank from attack (because the PC's will always defend their crappy little vineyard against the incoming horde of ). And, of course, the players feel beholden to the nobility for more goods and services.

Of course in one memorable game after spending time developing their estates and gaining more popularity than the King, the players decided it was time to take over the place. But that was fun in its own way

Generally the pcs in my games meet nobles when the shit has already hit the fan or about to (and their assistance in needed), so the setting in more informal. There's no need for protocol and there's less attitude all around. I also base most of my nobles on movie archtypes so they are easier to relate to, so they may encounter a Max Von Sydow like king from Conan, a conflicted prince/king like Henry V (Branagh's version) a scheming cynical rake like Blackadder or a badass warrior king like Buliwyf from 13th Warriror or you know Catherine de Médicis from Queen Margot

Lucky for me my players enjoys these kinds of social interactions, because although I had a good chuckle while reading Jackalope's post, if they were my players I'd slink away and contribute to the destruction of our great hobby by only reading collector edition game books.

Regards,
David R

In answer to Alnaq's question, yes this is extremely common across all roleplaying groups. Roleplayers tend to be rather independent "I KNOW MY RIGHTS, DAMNIT!" types. This was discussed recently on rpg.net, "Do RPers resist authority structures?" Of course I have spoken before on the need for the GM to don their Viking Hat and put the little bitches in their place. But speaking to the specific example...

Quote from: Jackalope;234927DM: The guard leads you down a long hall and through a massive pair of heavy wooden doors [...] As you enter, a young page steps out from the shadows and announces your presence.

Player: Yo, king fuckhead!  How's it hanging?

What I do is to interrupt the player, asking if their character has any history, culture knowledge skills, or a good general education. I ask them also the character's background, if they've ever encountered nobility before, or heard of them. This basically encompasses every character who ever existed. I then say, "your character would know that that approach will get the guards out; even if you're not killed on the spot and manage to escape the dungeons, you won't be getting any missions from this lord, and any time in the future you want to deal with nobles - well, if they've heard of you, they won't deal with you. So, now that you've had a chance to think about it, what do you say as you enter the room?"

Players usually back down, they were just trying to be funny. Ha ha.

I just treat it the same as anything else which the character would know but the player might not. "I charge at the enemy screaming firing from the hip!" says the player of a modern soldier. "Well, since you have the modern soldier's training, you know that Rambo was not a documentary, and if you do that probably you'll be killed."

Players always have the right to say, "I don't care, I'll do it anyway" but GMs should always make sure that the player is getting to act on knowledge the character would have. They can ignore it, but they should have it to ignore.

Quote from: WarthurOn a last point: when people go to see the Queen of England these days, they are carefully briefed on etiquette before they are admitted to their presence. Using an NPC to do this might be helpful for those players who aren't aware that their characters are supposed to be being formal and polite in these circumstances.

And that makes a lot of sense, too. I could just imagine some courtier saying to a bunch of PCs, "I can see you are from... a rather less courteous, literate and hygienic background than our noble lord, so perhaps it would be well for you to have some instruction in courtly manners. Let's practice the bowing and greeting, once you get that right the lord will have time for you."