I`m very undecided on buying Burning Empires, i love the stuff it promises but loathe the character centered stuff about issues and shmissues, well the thematic element.
Judd, would you care to "sell me on Burning Empires". Another thread maybe?
I think this game could be totally for me, but the actual play threads are mostly centered on character stuff. I don't grok it. Is there stellar empires or not? May I rule planets and civilizations and large fleets or not?

I was involved in the playtest of BE and so I played a bunch of sessions before it came out with my home group.

QuoteIs there stellar empires or not?

Yes, the first stage of the game is World Burning, during which the group sits down and creates their own world, ripe for alien invasion.

QuoteMay I rule planets and civilizations and large fleets or not?

Yes, you may certainly rule a planet with an iron fist while wearing Iron (think 40K Terminator Armor).

Firefight, the combat system absolutely supports fleet to fleet combat.

Other Questions?

I have one, if you don't mind. I understand that BE's rules and play are built around a specific, limited-period scenario, the Vaylen invasion of a planet. How well could BE translate into open ended play?

Is it Empires against each other, or single planets?
GM vs Players?
Players vs Players?

Where does the character centered stuff come in?

Hit me, James.

I'm sure its possible with some fiddling but the game is really tight and is designed to play out hard choices made in the battle with alien invaders.

I'd bet it would be pretty easy to take the survivors from one world and put them as refugees on the next if you wished.

So I can`t build my own sector, fleets and empires?
It's all only this Invasion of one planet?

Quote from: SettembriniIs it Empires against each other, or single planets?
GM vs Players?
Players vs Players?

Where does the character centered stuff come in?

The game is flat out about the Valen invading a planet and trying to take it over so they can put their children in your brain.

It is set up so that the GM and the players are competing for this planet, competing to take it over.

The character centered stuff comes in with the players' Beliefs.  They are how they gain artha, which can make their roles better.  Players are pushing to complete goals in their Beliefs and the GM is challenging their Beliefs.  

Hope that makes sense.

Quote from: SettembriniSo I can`t build my own sector, fleets and empires?
It's all only this Invasion of one planet?

One planet at a time, chief.

QuoteHope that makes sense.

Not really. I thought it`s about an invasion. Invasions are decided by tactics and ressource management.
Now you are talking about personal beliefs of characters which are attacked. Is the invasion a simile/parable on what it is really about?

Quote from: SettembriniNot really. I thought it`s about an invasion. Invasions are decided by tactics and ressource management.
Now you are talking about personal beliefs of characters which are attacked. Is the invasion a simile/parable on what it is really about?

Okay, an example from the game I played.

The Valen are smugging their own kind into the planet, past the security measures.  They have a worm in the head of a prominent politicial...so think President Kennedy with an alien sperm in his skull.

Cool.

The Valen were also controlling this religious zealot who had a fortification in the planet's northern pole.  They send them in to kidnap this Kennedy just before the election, entirely for publicity and to get him alone and gain his intel if they can.

One of the players is Kennedy's doctor and another is the General of the planet's armed forces and Kennedy's bodyguard, neither of whom know he has an alien worm in his head.

Bam!

Character driven conflict that feeds into the greater conflict of the planet.  When those zealots came for Kennedy, there was a vicious inter-squad Firefight in the street.

Hope that makes sense.

Does that make sense?

Quote from: Paka*snip*

Does that make sense?

It does for me. BE games are based around a "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" type situation, and how the PC involved figure into the escalating events.

It's sounds awesome for one-offs, but repeat play? hm.

Quote from: JamesVIt does for me. BE games are based around a "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" type situation, and how the PC involved figure into the escalating events.

It's sounds awesome for one-offs, but repeat play? hm.

Its somewhere between one-offs and ad infinitum play.

Picture the mini-campaign that goes for 5-10 sessions.

But I don't think when you get done with those 10 session you will really want to stop.  You can play the next game from the alien side or make the world you are in entirely different, so instead of a game about politics and a sly invasion it is plasma cannons on the moon and space battles from the first game.

It ain't a one-shot engine is what I'm saying.

Buy it, don't buy it, like it, hate it, whatever but I just want to jump in and correct notions when posters who have never read nor played it try to define it.

Wow.
Big Let-down. I really had hoped for a highly political, strategic level Empire building/destruction game, all not in boardgame, but roleplay format, with plausibilities and "Grand Captainship" flying all over the table. I'd kill for such a game...

Thanks Judd! I think I have got an impression.

The subsystems still look very neat, maybe I can salvage them for my Traveller Campaigns.

Quote from: SettembriniWow.
Big Let-down. I really had hoped for a highly political, strategic level Empire building/destruction game, all not in boardgame, but roleplay format, with plausibilities and "Grand Captainship" flying all over the table. I'd kill for such a game...

I plan to use Burning Empires some time precisely as you describe.

But Paka is right, that's not the focus of the game as printed. All the sub systems and lifepaths and mechanics can easily support what you describe - but the structure would need looking at if you change the premise.

Our first game however will be Vaylen worm invasion..!:cool:

Quote from: SettembriniWow.
Big Let-down. I really had hoped for a highly political, strategic level Empire building/destruction game, all not in boardgame, but roleplay format, with plausibilities and "Grand Captainship" flying all over the table. I'd kill for such a game...

While I have to defer to Paka since he's been lucky enough to actually play the game, instead of just read the book like I have so far, I think that that game you describe is very much inside the scope of BE. It is all set against the general backdrop theme of, well Body Snatchers is probably not the worse analogy. But other than that, actually because of that, a planet in civil war is very much what you have. At least on the surface. Because that is how the worms invade. Rot a planet from the core out to drop the defenses so they can bring in shiploads of worms and convert the remaining humans.

There is a blog that is has 6 or 7 very lengthy entries, numbered in roman numerals, written by someone that was involved directly in the development.  Unfortunately the blog seems down right now, but you can check back later. http://urdwell.blogspot.com  It is a very lengthy read, but it is also quite extensive. And most importantly free. :win:

Another suggestion is just go over to the official Burning Empire forums and give as full a description as you can of what you are looking for. That forum has, as can be expected, a very heavy fan-boi tone that is a bit of a turnoff for me. But I don't think you can go wrong asking the question of 'abzu', the owner/developer. I've found him quite forthright. If, from your description, he doesn't think it is what you are looking for he'll tell you flat out. I've seen him say it to others before, even when they are already to pull out their wallet and send him cash.


P.S. One word of warning though. You'll likely have much better results playing BE if you try to shed what you know works and doesn't work in an RPG. Because that knowledge is ultimately rooted in the context in which you learned it. Burning Empires does enough things fundamentally different that the context makes a lot of the knowledge more akin to baggage.

Not to suggest you don't know nuthin', because that just isn't the case. But that what you have learned tends to come with a lot of unspoken and often unrealized assumptions that often don't apply in BE.  It is by far the highest hurdle I've seen to overcome for an experienced RPG player coming to BE or BW.