Quote from: StuartThe classic hp system works (you *aren't* shot with the crossbow -- you dive out of the way!) but the following associated systems aren't as smooth:  armour, healing.

Stuart... your avatar is getting more frightenning each time ... thnx... now I must go hide under the covers...  :eek:

As for crossbow dodging... um... I know we're not trying to be realistic... but have you ever seen or heard of anyone dodging a crossbow?   Me neither.

Quote from: VBWyrdeStuart... your avatar is getting more frightenning each time ... thnx... now I must go hide under the covers...  :eek:

As for crossbow dodging... um... I know we're not trying to be realistic... but have you ever seen or heard of anyone dodging a crossbow?   Me neither.

Then again, must we assume that everyone who is ever shot at is entirely at the mercy of their attackers proficency?

In theory I am a paid target, so a great deal of training has been on ways to avoid getting shot. Dodging bullets if you will. No one expects me to actually DODGE the bullet... but its better than trying to say 'moved in an erratic and rapid fashion to a place of cover and/or concealment so that any attempts to shoot him would be potentially thwarted by the difficulty of maintaining aim during his brief periods of vulnerability'.

Or: Dodging.

Quote from: SpikeThen again, must we assume that everyone who is ever shot at is entirely at the mercy of their attackers proficency?

In theory I am a paid target, so a great deal of training has been on ways to avoid getting shot. Dodging bullets if you will. No one expects me to actually DODGE the bullet... but its better than trying to say 'moved in an erratic and rapid fashion to a place of cover and/or concealment so that any attempts to shoot him would be potentially thwarted by the difficulty of maintaining aim during his brief periods of vulnerability'.

Or: Dodging.

Good point.  However, Stuart's avatar is nevertheless frightenning.

Quote from: VBWyrdehave you ever seen or heard of anyone dodging a crossbow?   Me neither.

I bet neither of us has ever seen or heard of anyone actually having a crossbow shot at them at all! :haw:

Feel free to replace "dive out of the way" with "was narrowly missed by..." etc.

If you think about HP not representing physical damage, but instead skill and / or luck, suddenly all sorts of genre things can be represented.

Quote from: Star Wars"Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise..."

So when Luke or Han stand there and pew pew pew the stormtroopers can't hit them -- to represent that in a game you don't need to make the Imperial elite into terrible shots!  Make them good shots.  They'll wipe out Jawas, and be able to make precise shots against difficult targets.  What keeps the heroes / players alive is their HP.

During combat with Storm Troopers when Han and Luke are standing there and the blaster fire is all over everything but them -- they're burning through HP.  They don't actually get "hit" until they're at 0 HP.  Their Skill, Luck, "The Force" or whatever is what's keeping them alive.  But eventually that'll run out... so if they don't get in their space car, turn on the space 8-track and haul ass, they're toast.

It's only when you add armour and healing that it gets messed up.

Quote from: VBWyrdeGood point.  However, Stuart's avatar is nevertheless frightenning.

Stay Hungry. :haw:

Quote from: StuartI bet neither of us has ever seen or heard of anyone actually having a crossbow shot at them at all! :haw:

Feel free to replace "dive out of the way" with "was narrowly missed by..." etc.

If you think about HP not representing physical damage, but instead skill and / or luck, suddenly all sorts of genre things can be represented.



So when Luke or Han stand there and pew pew pew the stormtroopers can't hit them -- to represent that in a game you don't need to make the Imperial elite into terrible shots!  Make them good shots.  They'll wipe out Jawas, and be able to make precise shots against difficult targets.  What keeps the heroes / players alive is their HP.

During combat with Storm Troopers when Han and Luke are standing there and the blaster fire is all over everything but them -- they're burning through HP.  They don't actually get "hit" until they're at 0 HP.  Their Skill, Luck, "The Force" or whatever is what's keeping them alive.  But eventually that'll run out... so if they don't get in their space car, turn on the space 8-track and haul ass, they're toast.

It's only when you add armour and healing that it gets messed up.

Ok I'm sorry to admit this but I am coming into this conversation towards the tail end.   But that said ... I don't buy this concept of Hit Points being anything other than the physical damage that a body can take.  To me it represents exactly what the name implies (sorry if everyone else has already made this point)... "Hit Points" = "Number of times this Character can be Physically Hit before it goes kaput".   As far as I'm concerned all the dodging stuff you're talking about goes squarely and directly into Armor Class, which includes Dodging.   At least in my system it does (homebrew D&D 1e variant).   So a Thief with great dodging skill due to his high dexterity has a great Armor Class.   He can dodge.  In fact if he puts on heavy armor, he can't dodge as well.  It neutralizes his dexterity because of its bulk.   Therefore his armor class may stay the same because the armor itself adds to his Armor Class.   So what's the advantage of Armor?  It absorbs Hits, reducing damage per blow.   Anyway, that's how I run things in the Elthos System, roughly speaking.  

I am going back under my covers now.   Eeeeeeeek!

Quote from: StuartSo when Luke or Han stand there and pew pew pew the stormtroopers can't hit them -- to represent that in a game you don't need to make the Imperial elite into terrible shots!  Make them good shots.  They'll wipe out Jawas, and be able to make precise shots against difficult targets.  What keeps the heroes / players alive is their HP.

During combat with Storm Troopers when Han and Luke are standing there and the blaster fire is all over everything but them -- they're burning through HP.  They don't actually get "hit" until they're at 0 HP.  Their Skill, Luck, "The Force" or whatever is what's keeping them alive.  But eventually that'll run out... so if they don't get in their space car, turn on the space 8-track and haul ass, they're toast.

It's only when you add armour and healing that it gets messed up.

Actually it breaks down in Return when Leia gets shot at teh START of the big fight...
 
But don't let that stop you....

Hit Points = Hits To Kill.

Anything else is fraud.

I agree the name "Hit Points" is yet another thing working against what I'm suggesting.  Which is why I'd call it something else.  Luck, Fate, Stamina, Spirit, whatever.  Hit points and rolling to see how much damage you do with a weapon when you hit -- that language doesn't lend itself to the idea of hp being anything more than how tough your muscles and bones are.

QuoteActually it breaks down in Return when Leia gets shot at teh START of the big fight...

She must have used them all up fending off Jabba's advances. :haw:

Quote from: StuartTheir Skill, Luck, "The Force" or whatever is what's keeping them alive.

Maybe it's their "Deude Factor".

Quote from: SpikeActually it breaks down in Return when Leia gets shot at teh START of the big fight...
 
But don't let that stop you....

If we're using Star Wars as an example, we should probably use Star Wars d20. In it hit points are called vitality points, and actual damage is to your wound points. Crits go straight to wounds, so Leia must have been critted by that shot.

Quote from: James McMurrayIf we're using Star Wars as an example, we should probably use Star Wars d20. In it hit points are called vitality points, and actual damage is to your wound points. Crits go straight to wounds, so Leia must have been critted by that shot.

Void as of Star Wars Saga Edition, which uses Hit Points.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerVoid as of Star Wars Saga Edition, which uses Hit Points.

that would be why I didn't use SAGA. Did you have anything useful to say?

Quote from: James McMurraythat would be why I didn't use SAGA. Did you have anything useful to say?

Simple clarification of a potentially confusing reference to Star Wars d20, as Saga is not SAGA ("SAGA" refers to the SAGA game engine), and is the most recent revision of WOTC's d20 Star Wars TRPG.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerSimple clarification of a potentially confusing reference to Star Wars d20, as Saga is not SAGA ("SAGA" refers to the SAGA game engine), and is the most recent revision of WOTC's d20 Star Wars TRPG.

Oh, ok. Thanks.

For the record, I only meant for my statements to apply to the things they apply to, not be taken as some universal indicator of how all Star Wars systems work.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerHit Points = Hits To Kill.

Anything else is fraud.

I tend to agree.  If hit points were luck or dodgy ability, Thieves/Rogues and Monks would have the most, not Barbarians.