Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWotC/Hasbro is really only interested in you, the gamer, spending your money on their products.  They are not interested in pleasing you as a gamer.  They are interested in creating the perceived need to buy more of their products at whatever price they set.

Make no mistake -- theirs is a business, not a hobby.

I think there is definitly a difference between how WotC operates and how a small company operates.

That being said, I think these differences are overstated. At the end of the day, WotC/Hasbro (so far) have offered roleplaying games that aren't much different from other RPGs, at prices that aren't much different from other RPGs and under a model that's not much different from other RPGs.

They were also a leader as far as open content/free licensing in this smallish industry.

They're definitly bigger than the competition but they aren't very different from other companies.

Quote from: riprockThe pop-culture notion of a paranormal power is something that doesn't run out of ammo in the first five minutes and leave the user useless and bored for sixteen hours.  The pop-culture notion of a wizard is not somebody who's useful from 09:00 to 09:05 and a burden on his friends for the rest of the day.

The pop culture idea of a wizard assumes a reasonably powerful individual which first level D&D characters are not. A wizard, started at about 6th or 7th level, has an arsenal of spells which could replicate, or out-perform a "TV show" type spellcaster without breaking a sweet. It is funny how many of D&D's supposed "flaws" just aren't there if you don't start the party as apprentices.

OTOH, I must commend you for doing the right thing and choosing another game when you discovered D&D wasn't for you.

Quote from: Sean"So my psionic Eladrin battlemage enters the cavern"

"Whereupon an Ogre, 4 Orcs and a Chaos Smurf burst from the shadows from different directions. You are surrounded. "

"Big deal, I draw the fabled fiery runesword of Minguz while summoning the demon bound within my mithril codpiece to add his blessing."

Damn! I think you just sold me on 4e! Teh gonzo rulz!

Quote from: Sean"So, you can be a half-demon ninja warlock or a swashbuckling hobbit chaos druid"

"What, is this Rifts? Can't I just be a fighter ?"

"Sorry but that's not k3wl or buffed enough for 4e - you'll be up against dragon-blooded half-orc spider-cultists with obsidian apocalypse knives. It's totally hardcore."

Dude, exactly. This is what I already despised about 3.x, and its only been ramped up to 11 with the new edition.  Nothing is just a fighter anymore; no, a fighter has to have psionics, cast "battle spells" and eventually must multiclass as a Ninja-warlock or something or else he'll get his ass kicked.

That's why my own FtA! is archetypal. Classes are classes. I'm SICK TO FUCKING DEATH of prestige classes and of classes being ramped up.

To me, the minute that D&D started to suck was when some fuckface decided that every class had to have magic (or spell-like abilities, or combat maneuvers that worked like spells), and that every class had to get some kind of kewl power at every single level.  That immediately meant the death of the regular thief, the regular fighter, and even the regular wizard.

RPGPundit

Check me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 4e have both humans and a 30 level base class fighter? Sure, it may offer the option to play a half-illithid chaos smurf psionic warrior, but nothing I've seen forces it.

Chaos smurfs are teh hot.

Quote from: AosChaos smurfs are teh hot.

Nah, chaos smurfettes are teh hot. Although once you cross a certain chaos threshold it gets kinda hard to tell the difference.

I just listened to the most recent D&D podcast where Merles and Noonan interview a couple of their playtesters about their characters.

It sounds like they have a World of Warcraft inspired "Aggro" system in the game.

Actually, there are frequent WoW comparisons and references that continue to pop up...

I read one of the R&D blogs where the dude says they tried out that Aggro malarky in playtesting but have dismissed it since.

That WOTC form FREAKS ME OUT - all those bitter tears from 22 yr old grognards

If there is an aggro system it'll almost certainly be dropped if I run. I can't picture one that would work well for a tabletop game. If it's complex enough to cover lots of scenarios it's probably too clunky to use. If it's not very complex, it's not going to be useful outside of "does the orc care if his door just opened" and I don't need a rule to tell me that.

wtf is an Aggro system?

I just had to find the same thing, Haffrung. Seems it's a system that determines how the enemy will react - say, focusing attacks on the one seen as the greatest threat.  At least, that's what I drew from the couple of things I looked at....

so I'm all ears for a definition from someone in the know....

Quote from: James McMurrayCheck me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 4e have both humans and a 30 level base class fighter? Sure, it may offer the option to play a half-illithid chaos smurf psionic warrior, but nothing I've seen forces it.

Well, let's look at 3e. In 3e you had humans, and you had the Fighter class that went up all 20 levels.

However, what stopped you from playing it was the fact that you'd be pathetically weaker than someone who was a multiclass fighter/shadowknight/Gladiator/Assasin/Guardian of Oa.

At first glance, it appears that 4e's intended "solution" for this will be that they'll have a class called "Fighter", but it will feature spell-like attacks and superpowers at higher levels. So, not really a fighter at all.

RPGPundit

Quote from: StuartI just listened to the most recent D&D podcast where Merles and Noonan interview a couple of their playtesters about their characters.

It sounds like they have a World of Warcraft inspired "Aggro" system in the game.

Actually, there are frequent WoW comparisons and references that continue to pop up...

WTF is an "aggro"?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Haffrungwtf is an Aggro system?

In most MMO combat systems, player actions generate "threat", based roughly on the amount of damage they do, or heal, as well as other actions, plus the rrelative levels of the mob and a given party member.  Generally speaking, an enemy will go towards the party member with the most threat.  

However, there are usually abilities in the domain of the fighter/tanker type characters, that allow a character to generate threat directly, thus ensuring the mob pays attention to him, and only him, keeping the heat off the squishier guys like rogues and healers and mages and so forth.  

It's essentially a very simple AI system designed to make up for not having a real GM at the table.  

There are actually abilities similar to this already in a few of the 3.x classes, as well as some 3rd party material, and in theory, it's actually not a bad ides, though I wouldn't actually codify them in the form of an actual "threat system" or any such thing like that, because that would be an utter mountain of extra paperwork for no use whatsoever.

But I have found myself in combat scenarios in large open spaces where there really wasn't any way to control the battlefield enough to ensure the orcs don't just walk aroudn the fighter and start beating the sorceror about the head with his own limbs.