Quote from: Erik BoielleBut why haven't they? I really just do not understand. It seems like a level of incompetence I just don't expect from evil monolithic empires.

Why arn't they raking it in by giving the market what it wants?

GAH!

Theres nothing in, frex, this trailer

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26441.html

that would be out of place in a 40K game! Why arn't they using it? The masses go apeshit for this stuff!

I DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!!

It's pretty simple. GW believe that targetting the RPG at the the teen ultraviolence crowd would result in a siphoning off of customers from the minis game, not to mention losing a substantial number of adult players who've been fans of the game for decades. WFRP does not require figures to play, and there's no way they're going to endanger an already shrinking market by presenting it with something that threatens their largest revenue stream.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is aimed at mature kids and adults. As such it taps into a vibrant and established fanbase that the battle game simply doesn't appeal to in large numbers. That's the reason mate, simple economics. Now give up on the wailing and gnashing of teeth, your video game-Rifts hybrid simply isn't going to happen.

Quoteand there's no way they're going to endanger an already shrinking market by presenting it with something that threatens their largest revenue stream.

Well that can't be right. They make video games and MMORPGs and books targeted at their normal market (which isn't really teen - ALL of roleplaying is targetted at the same people).

And if videogames arn't a VASTLY more massive threat to their business (you don't have to buy minis for that either, AND they more) I'll eat my hat.

--

Hmmm. I think the orignal head of BI was sacked for pissing about with company money, but that was more for buying the rights to DC comics for no good reason than boneheaded creative decisions.

Quote from: Erik BoielleWell that can't be right. They make video games and MMORPGs and books targeted at their normal market (which isn't really teen - ALL of roleplaying is targetted at the same people).

And if videogames arn't a VASTLY more massive threat to their business (you don't have to buy minis for that either, AND they more) I'll eat my hat.

You said you didn't understand. I offered an explanation. If you choose to reject that explanation then that's your lookout. Go back and read the Wikipedia entry I linked to upthread, it's cited as the reason why GW cancelled WFRP in the first place.

Besides, I really don't get your whole 'videogames are threatening tabletop' argument. Your continual insinuations that the two are fighting over the same demographic does not bear close examination. Plenty of people (myself included) play and enjoy both, without either eating into the time or money allocated to them respectively. Making either into a clone of the other plays to all the weaknesses of the format, and very few of the strengths.

Quote from: Erik BoielleYou don't know why either, huh?

The Warhammer RPG is simply not what you are trying to claim it is.  It's a set of rules with which you are free to do whatever you want with it.  You either don't or can't see that so every single point you are trying to make beyond that is moot.  There are high powered and low powered settings for WFRP in the same ratio that there are for other games.  There are multitudes of rule supporting the slaughter of chaos and exploration into terrible lands.  But read what you will and rant what you can.  Your raving threads continue to be as amusing as they are completely wrong and baseless.

Troll on you shining diamond Troll on!

Quote from: DrewGo back and read the Wikipedia entry I linked to upthread, it's cited as the reason why GW cancelled WFRP in the first place.

Its not because it eats in to their market, its that compared to making miniatures making RPGs is a waste of time. So someone looked at it and saw that they could spend £X and get £Y in return doing RPGs or spend £X and get £Z making a new ork chariot and Z>>Y, explaining to investors why you are wasting your time and their money gets tricky. They could take the money you are wasting and stick it in porn or something and get more in return.

This is why things get cancelled - its not that they don't make cash or threaten 40K, it's because they don't make ENOUGH cash for the investment.

Making RPGs is always going to be a waste of time (compared to making miniatures) and so a bit of a hobby for GW, but if it is to much of a waste of time it gets cancelled. Again. They set up these little sub companies to try to insulate them a bit from the meatgrinder, but there is still a limit to what they will put up with.

Question: Is the case of Privateer and their Iron Kingdoms RPG instructive in this regard? It is, or was, selling well enough, yes? Is this due to its differences from the mini games, its similarity to them, something else?

Quote from: kryystThere are high powered and low powered settings for WFRP

If it is supposed to be high powered the game sucks.

Quote from: Erik BoielleIf it is supposed to be high powered the game sucks.

Then you're nowhere near as familiar with the rules as you claim to be. The game covers an entire spectrum of power levels, from lowly Ratcatchers to nigh unstoppable Wizard Lords.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityQuestion: Is the case of Privateer and their Iron Kingdoms RPG instructive in this regard? It is, or was, selling well enough, yes? Is this due to its differences from the mini games, its similarity to them, something else?

I don't think so. It took them ages to get the iron kingdom roleplaying stuff out, I believe because they spent the time on the more profitable miniatures stuff.

And they may not be a public company, so they don't have to be as mercenary about it.

So for them the RPG is also likly to be essentially a hobby or labour of love than a sensible business decision.

Quote from: Drewto nigh unstoppable Wizard Lords.

How many people do you know who play it like that, even though evidence suggests it should be a popular form?

Erik's arguement, summed up:

Warhammer should do X.

Video Games already do X.

Response: if you want X, do video games.

Eriks reply: I want X.X.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.xx.x.x!

Being an inferior clone of video games is not the way to increase profitability. You want to compete with videogames you do it by providing something they don't/can't.  Right now what you are arguing sounds a hell of a lot like 'Vanilla Ice cream would be more popular if it tasted more like Chocolate Ice Cream' and makes about as much sense.

Warhammer already does X. To a greater or lesser extent Video Games nicked X from them!

They have a huge line of X books, toys, videogames, T-shirts etc!

It's that for some bloody reason the roleplaying game does Y that gets me!

Quote from: Erik BoielleHow many people do you know who play it like that, even though evidence suggests it should be a popular form?

I've played several Warhammer campaigns with highly powered characters, from the early days of 1E onward.

It's also deeply ironic that you ask this question. If the "evidence" (which you've yet to cite) suggests that this form of play is the most attractive, then surely the vast majority of WFRP players would already be doing so? They don't seem to be, which neatly counters the entirety of your argument.

Face it, you're trying to lend some sort of universal appeal to your own tastes. Videogames are popular, ergo making WFRP more like one would result in the game gaining greater popularity. I could make the same spurious argument using soccer, chess or soap operas as my examples.

By all means state your preferences, but your not convincing anyone when you claim your proposal would somehow make WFRP the most played game evah.

Quote from: Erik BoielleWarhammer already does X. To a greater or lesser extent Video Games nicked X from them!

They have a huge line of X books, toys, videogames, T-shirts etc!

It's that for some bloody reason the roleplaying game does Y that gets me!

That's because RPG's by their nature do Y very well indeed. You're just going to have to accept that, and stop whining.

Quote from: DrewIt's also deeply ironic that you ask this question. If the "evidence" (which you've yet to cite) suggests that this form of play is the most attractive, then surely the vast majority of WFRP players would already be doing so? They don't seem to be, which neatly counters the entirety of your argument.

I don't think so. I think he's saying that if you present someone with a chocolate cake, they'll take that over the sponge one. Trouble is, that there are only so many varieties of chocolate cake, whilst there are loads of other types of cake. Oddly, he's arguing for the 3 book 40k model, but ignoring the first 2, leaving only the space marine one. That limits options and in an RPG that isn't what is expected.

I see what he means, but i'm by no means convinced.