So, yet again I am playing Gears of War

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mmFMsuW4u8

and watching appleseed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRrOfBgWpjU

anticipating hellgate london

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/6194.html

and reading 2000AD collections and warhammer comics:-

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/boomstudios/warhammer_damnation/01/preview/WH40K01_05.jpg

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/boomstudios/warhammer_damnation/01/preview/WH40K01_06.jpg

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/boomstudios/warhammer_damnation/01/preview/WH40K01_07.jpg

and painting little men.

and these are all much of a muchness - violence exploitation reveling in bloodshed and fighting.

So how has warhammer in the RPG world ended up being so very far from this? Where is the joy in bursting someones head with an axe or firing the largest guns you can imagine? Instead it is all grim and fighting is made as little fun as possible.

I don't understand! This is a constant source of frustration for me. It seems like the society for vegetarian activism serving pork pies at their annual lunch!

Has there ever been such a radical misjudgement of an audience in roleplaying history? Who at GW went nuts and okayed this? WHY!! FOR GODS SAKE WHY!!!!!!









Man, of all the things in the world it is this connundrum that makes me so frustrated I feel a pain in my chest.

The RPG and the battle game approach the Old World from very different directions, but there's plenty of overlap. If you want to play a gore soaked brutality monger with an axe then just create a party of third career character and run with it. The system can easily accomodate the kind of play you're pining for.

BUT WHY THE FUCK DO GW PUBLISH IT! EVERYTHING ELSE THEY MAKE IS GORE SOAKED BRUTALITY (at least as much as they can, being For Kids, and whatnot)!!!1111!!!!!!

I don't like to invoke 'no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the XXX public', but still, GW didn't become the worlds biggest hobby gaming product without pandering to its market.

It is like a big summer blockbuster where they decide to not have any chases or fights and instead deliver a three hour lecture on town zoning policy 1985-1991.

I just don't understand who the hell thought it was a good idea.

WHY!!!! WHY? Does someone want to kill roleplaying? Is this actually some kind of tax scam where they need to keep sales down? Maybe they don't understand money?

Duh, I know, we have the biggest name in tabletop gaming. Lets make a niche product!

DUMB! DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






I suppose it could be some kind of assault on capitalism in general and GWs shareholders in particular. Possibly the shareholds stole someones girlfriend and then left the guy responsible for WFRP for dead. Only he didn't die - now he has come back years later with a cunning scheme to waste their money.

Bryan Ansell, Rick Priestly et. al, twenty years ago.

From the look of things they were bang on the money. I'd far rather have a game that accomodates ultraviolence as one aspect of play than one that was solely devoted to it.

Quote from: DrewI'd far rather have a game that accomodates ultraviolence as one aspect of play than one that was solely devoted to it.

But it doesn't DO ultraviolence! Not like that Conan demo I was playing last night.

And why the fuck does a WARHAMMER game have to do anything else! ITS STUPID! Its a waste of the goddam IP! It actually damages roleplaying by making one of the largest settings unattractive to people who actually like it!

I've no problem with niche games. BUT WHY A NICHE WARHAMMER GAME!!"!!

WHAT THE FUCK DOES ALL THIS HAVE TO DO WITH WARHAMMER! YOU KNOW, THE STUPID GAME WITH THE LITTLE MEN!

Quote from: DrewThe RPG and the battle game approach the Old World from very different directions, but there's plenty of overlap. If you want to play a gore soaked brutality monger with an axe then just create a party of third career character and run with it. The system can easily accomodate the kind of play you're pining for.

This dude speaks the truth of it. They're even nice enough to include stuff you should NEVER EVER play as PCs...then give you full rules for generating characters! (I love you, Tome of Corruption.)

The combat system's meaty enough to have legs, and characters at two careers in and onward are pretty damn competent at bringing the violence.

Quote from: LeSquideThis dude speaks the truth of it. They're even nice enough to include stuff you should NEVER EVER play as PCs...then give you full rules for generating characters! (I love you, Tome of Corruption.)

The combat system's meaty enough to have legs, and characters at two careers in and onward are pretty damn competent at bringing the violence.

But why is this shit, which given that everything else the make is about this shit, and their audience presumbly likes them becuse of this shit, given that it is what they make, hidden at the back like a dirty secret. Why isn't it printed on the cover:

ULTRAVIOLENCE YO! JUST LIKE THAT OTHER SHIT YOU LIKE! GETS YOUR ULTRAVIOLENCE HERE!





WHICH DUMB SCHMUCK WRITES THEIR ADD COPY? AND WHY WASTE ALL THAT TIME AND EFFORT ON POINTLESS CRAP!!!! WHY DOES THE WORLDS BIGGEST GAMING COMPANY WASTE ITS TIME AND EVERYONE ELSES MAKING GAMES FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE GAMES WORKSHOP!!!!!!11111

Post some pictures Erik. That'll make you feel better.

Quote from: One Horse TownPost some pictures Erik. That'll make you feel better.

Vision fading..... apoplexy encroaching... must rant.......


But still! ITS STUPID!!!!!!!!!

WHY IS GW NOT PANDERING TO THE LOWEST COMMON DEMONINATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHY!

WHY?

WHY!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!

DO THEY NOT LIKE SELLING BOOKS OR SOMETHING!?>

Jezus, I like being a starving artist to, but why waste warhammer on it?

They wisely realised that a good RPG requires far more than a bloody combat system to sustain interest. And they were right to do so. I've been a fan of WFRP since first publication, but there's no way I'd have carried the torch for so long if it had been the kind of game you describe. One dimensional gorefests may be cool for a few sessions, but I'd quickly lose interest if that's all there was to it.

Under the current system I can play exactly the kind of game you're so desperate for and much, much more. That's a win-win scenario in my book.

But you can do multidimensional gorefests! Arty gorefests like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or Epic gorefests like Excalibur or SFX gorefest extravagansas like Transformers or stylised arty gorefests like 300 or brutal manly gorefests like warhammer or ANY ONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF OTHER WAYS THAT THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY PEDALS VIOLENCE TO THE MASSES!!!!!!!!

YOU KNOW!!!!! EVERY OTHER DAMN VIOLENCE INFESTED FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT OUR GORE SOAKED SOCIETY GOES IN FOR!!!! THE GUYS FROM CSI ARE HARDER BASTARDS THAN WARHAMMER PCS!!!!!!!!!!! (horatio kane regularly outshoots swatteams, and saying 'hi, I'm a CSI gets them more respect than working for the inquisition does in the 40KRP demo adventure)

But the key here is VIOLENCE!!!!!!! EXPLOTATION OF VIOLENCE!!!! VIOLENCE IS COOL! VIOLENCE IS FUN!!!!!! VIOLENCE SELLS!!!!!!!!!!!

WHY ARE THEY NOT SELLING VIOLENCE!!!!!!!! ITS PISSING MONEY AWAY!!!!! IT IS PISSING THE HOBBY AWAY!!!!!! FOR WHAT? BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS THEY ARE IN? ? ?

Erik, without waxing lyrical and shouting and in as plain language as possible, what changes would you make so that it better conformed to your vision? As has been pointed out, there are tools there to run a game of the sort you want. What is lacking is the more gonzo elements of the rest of the world; Araby, Lustria etc. That'd be a cool addition.

Quote from: Erik BoielleBut you can do multidimensional gorefests! Arty gorefests like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or Epic gorefests like Excalibur or SFX gorefest extravagansas like Transformers or or ANY ONE OF THE HUNDREDS OF OTHER WAYS THAT THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY PEDALS VIOLENCE TO THE MASSES!!!!!!!!

Story requires a solid setting and strong characterisation in order to elevate it above the video gamey examples you cited in your OP. WFRP is written explicitly to facilitate this. Your problem seems to be that starting characters aren't as powerful as you'd like them to be. There's an easy remedy for that, as has already been mentioned.  

QuoteYOU KNOW!!!!! EVERY OTHER DAMN VIOLENCE INFESTED FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT OUR GORE SOAKED SOCIETY GOES IN FOR!!!! THE GUYS FROM CSI ARE HARDER BASTRDS THAN WARHAMMER PCS!!!!!!!!!!!

Try saying that to a Champion. Or a Knight of the Inner Circle. Or a Master Wizard etc... These are the kind of characters who can mop the floor with most (if not all) of the commonly faced opposition.

Erik brings the WTF!!! to Warhammer fantasy discussion.

Dude: I play the game when I can, and the ultraviolence is always there. What are you on about?

Sure, my one career characters tend to have stupidly short lifespans... until they finally survive... but thats because of all the ultraviolence!!!!

And we still get to do fun stuff like own bars and convince a town that we are their own personal saviors, and investigate the source of all the ultraviolence!!!!

What the fuck are you playing?

Quote from: One Horse TownErik, without waxing lyrical and shouting and in as plain language as possible, what changes would you make so that it better conformed to your vision? As has been pointed out, there are tools there to run a game of the sort you want. What is lacking is the more gonzo elements of the rest of the world; Araby, Lustria etc. That'd be a cool addition.

I seem to recall that the further flung regions of the world will be covered in later source books, in a similar format to Brettonia and Kislev. Could be wrong on that one, though.