Complete with my comments in Verdana Bold:

Grab a d20. Roll high.

That’s the basic rule of 4th Edition just as it was in 3rd Edition, but the new edition puts that mechanic more solidly in the core of the game than ever.

Ever faced one of those life-or-death saving throws? Hours, weeks, or even years of play can hang in the balance. It all comes down to that one roll. There’s drama in that moment, but it’s drama you didn’t create, and you don’t want.

That’s gone in the new edition.

That's a shame. I hope they at least make it optional. Just because the drama isn't intentional shouldn't mean it's universally unwanted.

Have you played a spellcaster and been a little envious of the excitement of other players when they roll critical hits? Have you wished that you could do that for your spells?

You can in 4th.

Hmm, that could be neat. I love the gamble and chance of the dice, but in light of the previous statement, I guess WoTC only thinks chance is cool and fun when it's in the PC's favor? Baloney!

Have you ever had some confusion or miscalculation about your normal AC versus your touch and flat-footed AC?

You won’t have to worry about it.

It wasn't tough to do, but I'd rather not deal with it. It felt too fiddly for me, so I won't miss it.

If you want to know whether or not you succeed in doing some action in 4th Edition, you grab a d20 and try to roll high. Just as in 3rd Edition, you add a modifier to that roll from your character sheet, and you check for any extra bonuses or penalties from the situation or from your allies. The key difference in the new edition is what you roll for and what you add.

The standard defenses remain (AC, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will) but now they all work more like AC. When a dragon breathes fire on you, it attacks your Reflex and deals half damage if it misses. The DM rolls a d20, adds the dragon’s modifiers, and asks you what your Reflex score is. The dragon might roll a 1 and automatically miss no matter how much tougher it is than you, but there’s also the frightening possibility that it will roll a 20 and deal double damage.

Folks familiar with the new Star Wars Saga system will recognize this concept, but it’s evolved a bit to better suit D&D. In 4th Edition, when a creature only needs to touch you to deliver an attack, it targets your Reflex. When you’re surprised, you grant combat advantage, but you don’t need to look at a special AC on your sheet -- the normal number works fine. When a pit suddenly opens up beneath your feet, you make a check to jump out of danger, but if a crossbow trap fires an arrow at you, it the bolt attacks your AC.

What we mean when we talk about streamlining the system is this: making design decisions that make learning and using the game less difficult, while keeping the system just as robust. And making it more fun as the result.

They have the right idea in always trying to keep the rules toward the core mechanic of d20 + mods vs. Target. They're making good moves toward a slicker and more intuitive mechanic. I think that if they play their cards right they can have a game with plenty of crunch with an easier learning curve.

Spells can crit now.  Saves-like-AC from SWSE are in now.  Reduced fiddling for easier system mastery.  How many more confirmations of expected changes shall this article contain?

Quote from: JamesVEver faced one of those life-or-death saving throws? Hours, weeks, or even years of play can hang in the balance. It all comes down to that one roll. There's drama in that moment, but it's drama you didn't create, and you don't want.

That's gone in the new edition.

How?  Is there going to be some kind of Bennie mechanic?

Quote from: walkerpHow?  Is there going to be some kind of Bennie mechanic?

That is a good question. I can see them bringing in the D20 Modern's Action Point. a +d6 isn't huge, but it can matter.

Quote from: JamesVHave you played a spellcaster and been a little envious of the excitement of other players when they roll critical hits? Have you wished that you could do that for your spells?

You can in 4th.

Hmm, that could be neat. I love the gamble and chance of the dice, but in light of the previous statement, I guess WoTC only thinks chance is cool and fun when it's in the PC's favor? Baloney!

Unless they only don't let NPCs and critters crit (and we know they do), I don't see how the inclusion of spell crits has anything to do with only thinking things are only cool if they're in the PC's favor.

Quote from: JamesV quoting the articleHave you played a spellcaster and been a little envious of the excitement of other players when they roll critical hits? Have you wished that you could do that for your spells?

You can in 4th.

As a spellcaster whose best effects can only be used a few times a day, I always sort of thought that the "thrill of doing really cool stuff occasionally" was sort of built in.

:shrug:

Quote from: JamesVHave you ever had some confusion or miscalculation about your normal AC versus your touch and flat-footed AC?

No, because for the most part, I simply ignored flat-footed AC.

In general, though, this batch of changes sounds pretty good to me.

More thoughts.

Quote from: JamesV quoting articleEver faced one of those life-or-death saving throws? Hours, weeks, or even years of play can hang in the balance. It all comes down to that one roll. There's drama in that moment, but it's drama you didn't create, and you don't want.

That's gone in the new edition.

That's a shame. I hope they at least make it optional. Just because the drama isn't intentional shouldn't mean it's universally unwanted.

Yeah.

I'm happy to have "chance of death" in a game. I do prefer they only be at crucial junctures, however.

What this really says to me: bodaks, catoblepas: un-fun.

Cackling arch-enemy lich with finger of death: fun.

But the complaint is disingenuous to me since at most levels where save-or-die is an option, so is resurrection magic.

QuoteHave you ever had some confusion or miscalculation about your normal AC versus your touch and flat-footed AC?

No. But this is disingenuous too, as reflex defense is the new touch AC.

Not that this bothers me. I'm confused why reflex save and touch AC were ever different beyond the context in which they were use.

QuoteThe standard defenses remain (AC, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will) but now they all work more like AC.

One of the few changes to the game I have heard about that I like.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadBut the complaint is disingenuous to me since at most levels where save-or-die is an option, so is resurrection magic.

Honestly, I'd just as well do without resurrection magic if that also means doing away with 99% of the save or die type of hazards.  But then I'm an Iron Heroes player so that's to be expected...

Quote from: PeteHonestly, I'd just as well do without resurrection magic if that also means doing away with 99% of the save or die type of hazards.  But then I'm an Iron Heroes player so that's to be expected...

To be honest, I'm not a huge fan myself. Nonetheless, I was commenting in the context of talking about D&D, so wasn't thinking removing it was an option.

But my latest take on this (handling PC death in the game) is not to remove the chance of instant death, but to remove player-penalties for PC death. That is, no "coming in at a lower level" if your character dies. At worst, you suffer a one-session penalty.

Heck, I'm even toying with a "karma bonus" type of system wherein if your former character gets aced, your new character gets bonuses!

I am cautiously optimistic!

Spellcasters rolling crits might not seem like much but I know at least one of my players who will be thrilled because he loves the chance aspect of rolling dice.

My guess with the "save-or-die" disappearance is they just want to get rid of instant effects and from now on, it will be even more about HP losses. Otherwise, I really don't know what they mean by that. I could see drama points vetoing "death" but that can't be just that, because once you run out of drama points, you'd still die

I really like the way they are changing saves and making them similar to AC.

If the rest of the system is also streamlined (including chargen) that would convince me to switch.

A stupid move, moving the saves to an attack roll.
It changes nothing, but gives the players less to do in dire situations.

GM rolls, crits, player dies/sucks/turns green.

No saving throw, means one less moment of influence for the players.

Remember Battletech?
You are allowed to mark off the little boxes when you are hit by a weapon. This is a recompensation for getting hit. Marking off the boxes is part of the fun.

As are saving throws!
As were saving throws.

Again a stupid move, that accomplishes nothing.

Oh wait, it does make sense in exactly one case: Every Caster has mostly attacks that are comparable to those of a fighter or ranger.
Then you need to roll for spells, because they would be even more boring than they actually are.

Quote from: James McMurrayUnless they only don't let NPCs and critters crit (and we know they do), I don't see how the inclusion of spell crits has anything to do with only thinking things are only cool if they're in the PC's favor.

If the NPCs are the underdogs (and they usualy are) their best chance is to get a lucky roll. What this article says is that henceforth a single lucky roll can't kill the PCs. So instead of having a chance to desicively slay PCs outright, they'll just get an extra bit of damage now and then. The results will be less swingy and there will be fewer TPKs on average.

It's statistical railroading.

What this implies (to me) is a universal to-hit roll with spells for mages...  which IMHO is a good thing-  Finally, that Spellcraft skill will be important for things besides determining what just got cast at you.

Spells like Magic Missle with its auto-hit feature will now become vastly more important- You don't have to worry about scoring a miss and having that precious spell slot becoming wasted.  True, Magic Missile won't be able to crit, but a sure thing is a sure thing.

Quote from: JamesVComplete with my comments in Verdana Bold:

Grab a d20. Roll high.

That's the basic rule of 4th Edition just as it was in 3rd Edition, but the new edition puts that mechanic more solidly in the core of the game than ever.

Ever faced one of those life-or-death saving throws? Hours, weeks, or even years of play can hang in the balance. It all comes down to that one roll. There's drama in that moment, but it's drama you didn't create, and you don't want.

That's gone in the new edition.

That's a shame. I hope they at least make it optional. Just because the drama isn't intentional shouldn't mean it's universally unwanted.

A good DM doesn't massacre PCs with save-or-die saving throws that they had no way of avoiding. Sure, theres risk, but the trick is not to give PCs no option but accept a save or die situation. Sure, if the characters are stupid and take risks they shouldn't, or if they ignore warnings, or if they wander blindly into a trap, then kill 'em. But the above statement tells us yet again that 4th ed isn't about playing smart, it isn't about encouraging players to think around problems, its not about rewarding smart play, its about encouraging ignorant play.

QuoteHave you played a spellcaster and been a little envious of the excitement of other players when they roll critical hits? Have you wished that you could do that for your spells?

You can in 4th.

Hmm, that could be neat. I love the gamble and chance of the dice, but in light of the previous statement, I guess WoTC only thinks chance is cool and fun when it's in the PC's favor? Baloney!

You can in 2nd ed too, it you get the Spells and Magic book. Nasty little sub-system that.

But to be honest, have I been envious when the fighter gets a crit with his short spear? No. Because I'm on the same side as that fighter, his role is to dish out damage every round, my role as the mage is to tactically assess the situation and take action at the right time to win the battle. I'm not there to dish out a numerically high amount of damage every round, that isn't my job if I'm playing a mage. And you know what? I don't want it to be.

QuoteHave you ever had some confusion or miscalculation about your normal AC versus your touch and flat-footed AC?

You won't have to worry about it.

It wasn't tough to do, but I'd rather not deal with it. It felt too fiddly for me, so I won't miss it.

Oddly enough, I've never had an issue with it either. Because it isn't fecking difficult. But to be honest I'd favour a game that simply removed the whole flat footed thing anyway.

QuoteIf you want to know whether or not you succeed in doing some action in 4th Edition, you grab a d20 and try to roll high. Just as in 3rd Edition, you add a modifier to that roll from your character sheet, and you check for any extra bonuses or penalties from the situation or from your allies. The key difference in the new edition is what you roll for and what you add.

The standard defenses remain (AC, Fortitude, Reflex, and Will) but now they all work more like AC. When a dragon breathes fire on you, it attacks your Reflex and deals half damage if it misses. The DM rolls a d20, adds the dragon's modifiers, and asks you what your Reflex score is. The dragon might roll a 1 and automatically miss no matter how much tougher it is than you, but there's also the frightening possibility that it will roll a 20 and deal double damage.

So the DM rolls to see if you're hit, you don't roll for a save. Not sure I can see the point of it, it seems to take some of the fun out of the situation for me. I don't see the advantage.

(cut)

QuoteWhat we mean when we talk about streamlining the system is this: making design decisions that make learning and using the game less difficult, while keeping the system just as robust. And making it more fun as the result.

Streamlining? So the DMG will be less than 200 pages? The players guide less than 200 pages? Come on, you want a streamlined system, so streamline it. Cut out all the crap, give us a simple, fast system that is easy to learn, fast to play and not as creaky or cranky as 3rd ed.