Aha! They're conservative revolutionaries! Leo Strauss, esoteric vs. exoteric, "noble lies" etc.

Quote from: RPGPunditWhere did they freak out?

The LJ account of RPGNet's Peaceblossom, wherein they've gone on about how WOTC's completely fucked up and how sexist it is and blah-blah-blah about nothing.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerThe LJ account of RPGNet's Peaceblossom, wherein they've gone on about how WOTC's completely fucked up and how sexist it is and blah-blah-blah about nothing.

And do you have a link?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerThe LJ account of RPGNet's Peaceblossom, wherein they've gone on about how WOTC's completely fucked up and how sexist it is and blah-blah-blah about nothing.

Um?  WTF?  

So in your world, "the StoryGames crowd freak out" (your earlier claim) turns out to mean "RPGNet's Peaseblossom hated it".  That's really interesting language use.  

Peaseblossom's LJ entry doesn't have much explanation, but she explains herself in more depth on this IRIS Network thread, saying:

QuoteI think it's horrible. I mean really, catastrophically bad. And stupid. Who exactly do they think they're marketing to? I cut my teeth on AD&D (2nd. ed.) when I was about 13, and this book and the website would've made me embarrassed to play. The Cosmo-reading skinny chick who pretended to be bad at math was my arch-nemesis (not anyone in particular, but exactly that image of what it means to be a young woman).

There may be some personal issues there, but it seems pretty clear that she doesn't hate it, say, because it's D&D.

Quote from: RPGPunditAnd do you have a link?

RPGPundit

http://peaseblossom.livejournal.com/456492.html

I had time to look at it a bit yesterday (before I sold it)
 It seems alright....a lot better than buying a book with the word DUMMIES in the title.
 Her style is conversational and a tad auto-biographical...but it works.

 The main thing I got from what I could rad from it when I had time was her saying: "Hey, I',m having fun with this game and I wasn't sure I was going to when I started.....and here are some pointers to help other women have FUN playing D&D".

- Ed C.

Quote from: J Arcanehttp://peaseblossom.livejournal.com/456492.html

So, according to the people there, most women apparently do not have a sense of humor, never read Cosmo, and hate all things feminine.  :rolleyes:

To me, the whole book and website package look exactly like what it is - a book written by woman for women.

I suppose if the book was in block letter font and featured a chick wearing a flannel shirt, a really short haircut, and wearing a button that says "Math Club President" then it would have been OK?

Actually, now I have a new theory.  The mentality displayed here about hating popular/feminine females is perhaps the equivalent of the male gamer tendency to hate "jocks".  I wonder then, would male gamers express outrage over a book by an obvious athletic and popular guy talking about D&D?

Quote from: jgantsI wonder then, would male gamers express outrage over a book by an obvious athletic and popular guy talking about D&D?

Almost certainly.  See, for example, the Penny Arcade strips where they bemoan the number of fratboys that have gotten into online gaming for a parallel example.

Quote from: jgantsSo, according to the people there, most women apparently do not have a sense of humor, never read Cosmo, and hate all things feminine.  :rolleyes:

To me, the whole book and website package look exactly like what it is - a book written by woman for women.

Er, I don't agree with peaseblossom, but that isn't what she's saying.  She's saying that the Cosmo-like approach is likely be a turn-off to the girls most likely to play D&D.  Cosmo is popular with many women, but certainly not all.  It has circulation numbers of 2-3 million, I believe, which is very popular for a magazine, but it can't claim to represent the majority of women.  

Quote from: jgantsActually, now I have a new theory.  The mentality displayed here about hating popular/feminine females is perhaps the equivalent of the male gamer tendency to hate "jocks".  I wonder then, would male gamers express outrage over a book by an obvious athletic and popular guy talking about D&D?

So some athletic, popular guy who's only played D&D for two years is picked to write the official-sponsored book to market to male players.  He tries to make D&D seem cool to guys by comparing character stats to tracking football stats, and so forth.  And suppose that the book is the most prominent marketing of D&D to male players, possibly replacing things like ads in comic books and such.  

Yeah, I think a lot of players would be ticked off by it.

Quote from: jhkimUm?  WTF?  

So in your world, "the StoryGames crowd freak out" (your earlier claim) turns out to mean "RPGNet's Peaseblossom hated it".  That's really interesting language use.  

She's part of the crowd, and regulars post there.

QuotePeaseblossom's LJ entry doesn't have much explanation, but she explains herself in more depth on this IRIS Network thread, saying:

There may be some personal issues there, but it seems pretty clear that she doesn't hate it, say, because it's D&D.

Different road, same end.

Quote from: jhkimShe's saying that the Cosmo-like approach is likely be a turn-off to the girls most likely to play D&D.

First of all, she (and the other commenters there) are saying more than that.  They are saying that the Cosmo-like approach is sexist.  My point - women do, indeed, like Cosmo and other feminine things.

Secondly, and this is thick with irony, saying that women who are thin and read Cosmo (read: girls in the popular clique) wouldn't like D&D is both missing the point of the book (an attempt to appeal to a different audience) and is a sexist statement itself.  

Quote from: jhkimSo some athletic, popular guy who's only played D&D for two years is picked to write the official-sponsored book to market to male players.  He tries to make D&D seem cool to guys by comparing character stats to tracking football stats, and so forth.  And suppose that the book is the most prominent marketing of D&D to male players, possibly replacing things like ads in comic books and such.  

Yeah, I think a lot of players would be ticked off by it.

And that would be just as silly, particularly if the approach was referred to as being sexist towards men (although that likely wouldn't happen, as the whole PC movement tends to pretend reverse discrimination doesn't exist).

Quote from: jhkimSo some athletic, popular guy who's only played D&D for two years is picked to write the official-sponsored book to market to male players.  He tries to make D&D seem cool to guys by comparing character stats to tracking football stats, and so forth.  And suppose that the book is the most prominent marketing of D&D to male players, possibly replacing things like ads in comic books and such.  

Yeah, I think a lot of players would be ticked off by it.

Have you ever seen Chris Perkins? He's kinda hot!

Seriously.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerShe's part of the crowd, and regulars post there.

She's not only the person who took Storygames to task for TonyLB's ¡Muy Macho! thread, she's also the person who criticized Spirit of the Century for its treatment of women and minorities, and earlier, IIRC, she attacked Ron Edwards saying that "Role-playing with women at the table is a sensual experience [...] with sexual undertones."

Now, I have my thoughts (often blithely uninformed) about each of these "incidents", but I do not think it's fair to see the SG crowd as having a monolithic opinion in lockstep with peaseblossom's views.

Quote from: jgantsFirst of all, she (and the other commenters there) are saying more than that.  They are saying that the Cosmo-like approach is sexist.  My point - women do, indeed, like Cosmo and other feminine things.

It depends what you mean by that.  Saying that many women like Cosmo is not sexist, in my opinion.  Assuming that because a set of people are women, that they will like Cosmo, is sexist.  

Her claim is that she thinks they are doing the latter.  I don't offhand agree with that (I haven't read the book yet), but that's her basis.  A parallel would be trying to sell tech gadgets to more women by offering them in pink colors or with girly designs on them, assuming that women like pink, girly things.  However, here's an article from Wired -- "What Do Women Want?  Less Pink, More Tech -- reporting on a survey that only 9% of women (specifically 750 randomly-selected British women age 24 to 45) would want such products.

Quote from: jhkimIt depends what you mean by that.  Saying that many women like Cosmo is not sexist, in my opinion.  Assuming that because a set of people are women, that they will like Cosmo, is sexist.  

Yes, I'm not saying that literally all women like Cosmo.  I'm saying that clearly a significant portion of women like Cosmo.  Otherwise, it wouldn't sell (I'm pretty sure men aren't the main customer base).