We've hit the ping-pong ball of the exchange.

There are basically three places to stand:

1. We have people who feel that rpgs shouldn't wallow in, and certainly shouldn't be designed to encourage the various play AP examples we've seen.

2. We have the authors stance that says, "yes, rape and other moral crimes are part of the design, AP of that nature is intended. It can be nothing else. And we think that makes good games."

3. We have a small subset of vocal people who say that the designer is wrong about his intent. Odd group that, who thinks thinks that calling Baker a liar is a way of defending the game.

4. We have another group that says the designer may be correct about intent- but is wrong about effect. Another odd group both in logic and in the fact they are (with respect to my original post) simply trying to deflect the thread to a different direction.

5. And then we have the group of people who think things like the AP examples are all fun and games plus healthy for all involved (this also includes the Designer). This is only slightly different than #1 in that they don't think (or maybe don't care) that System Matters- but they are good with result in any case.


Really, at this point we know all we need to know. The question left is solely an individual one. Where do you stand? How are you going to deal with the people who create and play in games like this?

I for example have expanded my Ignore list- I don't need 'wisdom' or comment from preverted gamers. I'll be certain to point out to anyone asking me about these games what the intent of the author and the nature of it's defenders are.

Beyond that, I think I'm done. If anyone has questions, PM me.

What about the people who don't care either way, and just want this thread to die.

Quote from: chucklesWhat about the people who don't care either way, and just want this thread to die.

They don't post to it.

Quote from: gleichmanWe've hit the ping-pong ball of the exchange.

There are basically three places to stand:

1. We have people who feel that rpgs shouldn't wallow in, and certainly shouldn't be designed to encourage the various play AP examples we've seen.

2. We have the authors stance that says, "yes, rape and other moral crimes are part of the design, AP of that nature is intended. It can be nothing else. And we think that makes good games."

3. We have a small subset of vocal people who say that the designer is wrong about his intent. Odd group that, who thinks thinks that calling Baker a liar is a way of defending the game.

4. We have another group that says the designer may be correct about intent- but is wrong about effect. Another odd group both in logic and in the fact they are (with respect to my original post) simply trying to deflect the thread to a different direction.

5. And then we have the group of people who think things like the AP examples are all fun and games plus healthy for all involved (this also includes the Designer). This is only slightly different than #1 in that they don't think (or maybe don't care) that System Matters- but they are good with result in any case.

I was with you until point 5, which is a blatant mischaracterization and an oversimplification.  Since, I don't fall into any of the first four categories, that must put me in the fifth and I never said the AP was fun and games or healthy.  I'm just having a major problem with the badwrongfun labeling that's going on here.

Quote from: gleichmanI for example have expanded my Ignore list-

Damnit! Now I'm never going to get him to admit he might have been mistaken about something (ANYTHING!)

Ah well, trying to get The Fifth to express an opinion of his own instead of parroting someone elses (about ANYTHING*) is probably gonna be more fun/challenging anyway.

*srsly dude. Whats your favorite flavor of icecream? And no you can't check with Ron first.

Quote from: walkerp....... I'm just having a major problem with the badwrongfun labeling that's going on here.

 However - roleplaying rape and the defiling of a body IS badwrong fun.

Quote from: KoltarButt - roleplaying rape and the defiling of a body IS badwrong fun.

Misspelling or Freudian slip?  You decide!

Quote from: KoltarButt - roleplaying rape and the defiling of a body IS badwrong fun.

Yes, but only in 4e and there still hasn't been an official announcement.

Quote from: BrantaiMisspelling or Freudian slip?  You decide!

:haw: I was looking at the space on the right.  I chuckled.  Then I saw the "error" on the left.  I guffawed.

That's a good summary gleichman.  I've said my piece, and I don't want to spend anymore time discussing this particular game.  I've lost a lot of respect for Vincent Baker, as well as some of the people championing this type of play.  

Rather than spend more time dwelling on the awfulness of this game, I'm going to focus on creating and doing positive things instead.

Quote from: KoltarHowever - roleplaying rape and the defiling of a body IS badwrong fun.

C'mon, Koltar, you have to admit that was a pretty funny typo given the circumstances.

Quote from: StuartRather than spend more time dwelling on the awfulness of this game, I'm going to focus on creating and doing positive things instead.

Like you and your team of little gnomes baking cookies for an orphanage?

Quote from: Erik BoielleDamnit! Now I'm never going to get him to admit he might have been mistaken about something (ANYTHING!)

Ok, already got PMs on who is in my ignore list. Not you Erik, so you still have your chance if you want it- pick a subject and make a thread.

It's a small list: GrimGent, droog, fifth_child, and walkerp. I may have missed some people, but I'll cut some slack to someone who posts "I disagree" but doesn't go on an endless pro-gaming porn spree like these guys.

Edit: Add TonyLB to the list. He's scum, but at least he's honest.

One other note, I find it interesting that given past posting history- I don't lose anything by this ignore listing. I can't recall any posts by them that were useful (in a good way) to me. I might be forgetting something- but even so that stands as proof.

Quote from: gleichmanIt's a small list: GrimGent, droog, fifth_child, and walkerp. I may have missed some people, but I'll cut some slack to someone who posts "I disagree" but doesn't go on an endless pro-gaming porn spree like these guys.

Wow.  Your OP here seemed quite rational.  It was driven like the rest of your gang by your ideology, but it was well thought out and critical.  Unfortunately, you've now fallen back into the easy method of censorship.  Saddens me.  Though you can't hear this, I would like for you to tell me where I participated in an "endless pro-gaming porn spree".

So far, this site is ending up being more restrictive than rpg.net, but not because of mod activity but because of the behaviour of the loudest posters! :eek:

Quote from: gleichmanIt's a small list: GrimGent, droog, fifth_child, and walkerp. I may have missed some people, but I'll cut some slack to someone who posts "I disagree" but doesn't go on an endless pro-gaming porn spree like these guys.

Oh I get it now.  People who disagree with you more than once are put on your ignore list.  That's a good technique.  That way you are always right once you respond to the first disagreement!

Also, I thought you weren't going to post here anymore?