Quote from: Spobo on April 25, 2025, 02:28:18 PM

Quote from: JanDevries on April 25, 2025, 12:47:53 PM

Quote from: Spobo on April 25, 2025, 10:26:14 AMThey went hard woke pretty quickly, which you can see with the dedicated LGBT supplement and the Flames of Freedom spinoff game that does a Hamilton-like pozzing of the American revolution.

No question that Zweihander is woke but the LGBT supplement is a third party product

I think it is official, it's published through their page on drivethru. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/331633/lgbt-in-a-grim-and-perilous-world-supplement-for-zweihander-rpg?

So is all their third party stuff.

Quote from: Spobo on April 25, 2025, 02:28:18 PM

Quote from: JanDevries on April 25, 2025, 12:47:53 PMNo question that Zweihander is woke but the LGBT supplement is a third party product

I think it is official, it's published through their page on drivethru. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/331633/lgbt-in-a-grim-and-perilous-world-supplement-for-zweihander-rpg?

3rd party or not, they are clearly down with the product being promoted under the zweihander label.

Don't buy from people that hate you.

The second-hand market is your friend...

Quote from: SHARK on April 25, 2025, 03:13:43 PM

Quote from: Man at Arms on April 25, 2025, 12:53:48 PM

Quote from: RNGm on April 25, 2025, 08:25:00 AM

Quote from: Man at Arms on April 25, 2025, 12:31:34 AMI ordered the 384 page hardcover PHB, as possible RPG inspirational material.  The price is very reasonable right now, on Amaz, with free 2 day shipping, too.  So I gave in, and dropped the coin.

Anyway, this is a genuine inquiry; not an advertisement.  I have heard of the WFRPG, but i have never seen it in person.  I think I heard that Zweihander, is "very" similar.

What have I jumped off into?

Which version?   I really hope you're already aware that they're coming out with a new edition later this year and kickstarted it last year...

Yeah, I'm fine with that.  I'm just checking out my first d100 system.  I don't intend to buy all the books, and newer isn't always better, etc.

I'm interested in the lower fantasy / more dangerous consequences aspect of it.

Greetings!

Man At Arms, while I have heard some people praise Zweihander--like JanDevries--I have also not just read many others claiming that the game is terribly Woke--but I have read plenty of Mr. Daniel Fox and his discussions with others.

I'm also an old fan of WFRP. WFRP 2E was also outstanding. With Zweihander, I would advise you to save your money, and pass this game by entirely. "Don't give money to people that hate you!"--as the saying goes, right?

Of course, you can choose to swim upstream, as it were. I would proceed with strong caution though in making any purchases.

I wouldn't buy Zweihander.

If you are just chomping to get into a D100 system--I would say Mythras would be a safer bet. The guys at Black Lodge Games did a preview of Mythras, and praise the game very highly. No signs of that game being Woke, either.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Points well taken, SHARK.  My coin, has already been spent....  I'll see what I can get out of it.  I've heard that "Corruption" plays a role in the game?  I'm interested to read their take on that.  After this book;  I'm sure it will probably
be a quick, hard bounce away, for me.

I ran a campaign of it and it was great, though wiffier than I would like (part of that it the typical D100 issue of it being hard to get higher percentage values for character "stats" and a flat distribution). Very gritty and fun.

I bought a copy of it ages ago, and it's been sitting in a corner on my office floor for a couple of years now. The author's near-universal reputation for being a dickhead put me off, and if I want a WFRP retroclone, there's absolutely no reason I wouldn't just play Warlock! instead.

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on April 25, 2025, 06:37:35 PMI ran a campaign of it and it was great, though wiffier than I would like (part of that it the typical D100 issue of it being hard to get higher percentage values for character "stats" and a flat distribution). Very gritty and fun.

Perhaps some houseruled adjustments, would help tighten things up?  Adjust things to your liking?

I'm liking the concept of exploding dice, for damage rolls.

Quote from: ForgottenF on April 25, 2025, 10:41:22 PMI bought a copy of it ages ago, and it's been sitting in a corner on my office floor for a couple of years now. The author's near-universal reputation for being a dickhead put me off, and if I want a WFRP retroclone, there's absolutely no reason I wouldn't just play Warlock! instead.

Except for, you know, the fact that Warlock! isn't even close to being a WFRP retroclone. It's a modified version of Fighting Fantasy. Warlock! is awesome, and thematically has SOME similarities, but it is a different beast.

Quote from: Man at Arms on Today at 12:02:14 AM

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on April 25, 2025, 06:37:35 PMI ran a campaign of it and it was great, though wiffier than I would like (part of that it the typical D100 issue of it being hard to get higher percentage values for character "stats" and a flat distribution). Very gritty and fun.

Perhaps some houseruled adjustments, would help tighten things up?  Adjust things to your liking?

I'm liking the concept of exploding dice, for damage rolls.

The Difficulty Ratings are underutilized in my experience. They can definitely make things a lot less "whiffy". I usually keep the Skills section open as I'm GMing, since each Skill has benchmarks for adjusting the difficulty, depending on the situation.. And the broader ratings are on the character sheet.

Though I'm not a fan of metacurrencies, I like one thing about Zweihander's Fortune/Misfortune points: whenever the players use one, it flips to the GM, who can then use it in the exact same way, but against the PCs.

After watching character creation videos online, it seems that character creation is overly time consuming, for characters who might not survive very long?

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on April 25, 2025, 06:37:35 PMI ran a campaign of it and it was great, though wiffier than I would like (part of that it the typical D100 issue of it being hard to get higher percentage values for character "stats" and a flat distribution). Very gritty and fun.

Supposedly the outdated starter (which I have but never played) and the new edition are bumping up the stats to lessen the chance of constant failure.  I'll leave it to those who played them and the prior full edition as to whether it's the case beyond just a simple increase in the base starting stats.

Quote from: JanDevries on Today at 01:24:54 AM

QuoteI bought a copy of it ages ago, and it's been sitting in a corner on my office floor for a couple of years now. The author's near-universal reputation for being a dickhead put me off, and if I want a WFRP retroclone, there's absolutely no reason I wouldn't just play Warlock! instead.

Except for, you know, the fact that Warlock! isn't even close to being a WFRP retroclone. It's a modified version of Fighting Fantasy. Warlock! is awesome, and thematically has SOME similarities, but it is a different beast.

It's a bit more than some thematic similarities. It has an extremely similar career progression system (which is the single most distinctive feature of WFRP), many of the same professions, an emphasis on gruesome wound tables, and so on.

You're right that it isn't a retroclone. What I was trying to say (and admittedly didn't phrase properly) is that it serves the purpose of a retroclone. It runs the same kind of fantasy, and is easy and relatively seamless to convert WFRP adventures to. The only things that don't sync up are the lack of a corruption mechanic (which personally I don't care about) and the lack of different schools of magic (which you can easily homebrew in).

Ah yes. Zweihander. The stolen RPG that its "designer" spam shilled all over forums and then threatened and doxed people calling him out.

Quote from: Man at Arms on Today at 12:02:14 AM

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on April 25, 2025, 06:37:35 PMI ran a campaign of it and it was great, though wiffier than I would like (part of that it the typical D100 issue of it being hard to get higher percentage values for character "stats" and a flat distribution). Very gritty and fun.

Perhaps some houseruled adjustments, would help tighten things up?  Adjust things to your liking?

I'm liking the concept of exploding dice, for damage rolls.

Probably. It's weird because a lot of BRP games suggest you fix this by both not calling for rolls often for tasks the PC would just succeed at AND providing bonuses based on how easy the task is - however since you're not calling for rolls on easy tasks, the bonuses never help. AND in combat and stuff like that, you have to call for rolls.

I think you're right though -there's probably stuff out there that would fix it (heck CoC 7e has an advantage/disadvantage mechanic) but I'm not sure what I'd use.

I'm less of a zero to hero guy and more of a "PCs are vaguely competent and then get more competent and maybe broader or more specialized, but don't become Batman level competent." Advancement in a lot of BRP systems is perfect for that, because as you get higher percentages it gets harder to get higher percentages (just like real life). But they often start out as wildly incompetent.

I'm not sure what I'd house rule though because I'm a terrible designer. I'm waiting to see what Reforged looks like (2e) to see what I'd need to do.

I do like it a lot more than WFRP 4e - it's way less fiddly but produces the same gameplay/story sorts of outcomes. I'm TERRIBLE at remembering rules but it was pretty straightforward and has a very fun damage mechanic.

I love WFRP-adjacent style games, but Zweihander is my favorite version of that style of games.

Just my play experience your mileage may vary.

On another note, I do think that restrictions in a design space make for creative designs - if you look at all of the cool ideas coming out of D100 - you've got Comae, CoC 7e, Delta Green, and Revolution D100 - all which really go to town on the core mechanic and do fun things with it.

Quote from: Omega on Today at 11:48:44 AMAh yes. Zweihander. The stolen RPG that its "designer" spam shilled all over forums and then threatened and doxed people calling him out.

It's no more or less "stolen" than any other retroclone. There are valid criticisms of Zweihander and its creator to be made. This isn't one of them.

Quote from: Spobo on April 25, 2025, 10:26:14 AMThey went hard woke pretty quickly, which you can see with the dedicated LGBT supplement and the Flames of Freedom spinoff game that does a Hamilton-like pozzing of the American revolution.

I feel you on that...it was...well...WTF situation for me...in the end it lit a fire in me and, well, there was the Kickstarter and two books ready to go once backers get theirs.

Richard