Hi,

Would anyone have a stat block for this weapon for PCSACS or could they point me in the right direction?

I'm doing an LAPD scenario and would like to have this weapon modelled.

Thanks.

if nobody else knows, i have a few things i can search. wasn't the terminator game by leading edge compatible?

i'm under the impression that Aliens, Living Steel, and The Terminator Miniatures game used compatible rules but I'm unsure.

Quote from: D-ko on April 12, 2025, 11:57:07 PMif nobody else knows, i have a few things i can search. wasn't the terminator game by leading edge compatible?

i'm under the impression that Aliens, Living Steel, and The Terminator Miniatures game used compatible rules but I'm unsure.

Hmm good idea. the T1000 uses a Beretta 92 in the T2 movie though. I have stats for that.

Also, while I'm here I'm looking at the MAC10 PCSACS stats in .45 ACP and 9mm para. The 9mm version seems to generally inflict more damage. Can any gun experts say if this is accurate? In popular parlance the 45 has more "stopping power"?

I'm sad to say that I know relatively nothing about guns, but enough to know that the pistol from the Aliens RPG isn't exactly what you're looking for but maybe it's enough to help in some way.

As long as GPT isn't hallucinating, this chart might be helpful.

It would seem that a .45 is clunkier, like a cannon compared to a thin laser. I imagine shooting distance and the organ you're aiming for would play a large part in this. a 9mm hits hard and penetrates better, being thinner, plus you don't have the recoil fatigue. That's really all I've got. Hopefully somebody who actually owns guns can provide more detail or correct me on anything.

Quote from: D-ko on April 13, 2025, 12:16:11 AMI'm sad to say that I know relatively nothing about guns, but enough to know that the pistol from the Aliens RPG isn't exactly what you're looking for but maybe it's enough to help in some way.

Thanks for the idea. I think that's always been just basically a H&K VP70 which PCSACs has stats for. I might go with the stats for the S&W model 469 and then account for the longer barrel length on the 5906 by adding an minimum incremental increase to the RID (penetration). PCSACS does this when going from the M15 short Colt govt auto to the M1911A1 full size.

Quote from: D-ko on April 13, 2025, 12:23:10 AMAs long as GPT isn't hallucinating, this chart might be helpful.

Sorry I can't see that

The debate rages on reddit (shoulda known) https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/1gd4tw3/i_am_very_confused_concerning_the_45_acp_vs_9mm/

If they have stats for the SW 5906 it will be in the Civilian Weapon Supplement. Unfortunately those books are in storage and I don't have easy access. LEG had a number of movie licenses including Lawnmower Man. It may be in there...and I think I have a copy in one of my filing cabinets here at home. I can check on that tomorrow morning.

There is a website that has the formulas for weapon creation but I have never used it.

http://pccs.understairs.nl/weapondesign.html



... 9mm and .45 ACP both have strong points and weak points...please, for the love of God, do not start a debate about that...imagine the alignment arguments, what is considered OSR question, and the AD&D one-true-wayism shit all wrapped into one debate. I am not fucking kidding. 😁

Greetings!

The .45 hits targets like a truck, inflicting enormous damage in blood loss, tissue destruction, and also causing SHOCK. Human beings are like bags of meat getting struck by massive, bloody power that kills them in moments or at the minimum, leaves them entirely incapacitated and helpless from blood loss and shock. Having an arm or leg blown off or turned into mush tends to do that kind of thing to people. Blowing big holes into a person's chest, stomach, or lungs tends to give them plenty to worry about.

9mm, especially when using more modern ballistic ammunition, it is, to my understanding, a decent weapon. However, it still is not as powerful as the .45 pistol.

As far as fatigue goes? Well, I suppose if you are a small man or a woman, that *might* be a consideration. I have fired a .45 all day. Putting hundreds of rounds down range. After a hundred rounds, for myself, there is some modest fatigue. However, that is just when doing training shooting at the range. In a general firefight against actual human enemies, you do not typically need hundreds or dozens of rounds. One or two rounds into a human enemy and they are done.

I have always had consistent, reliable performance from my Glock Model 21 .45 pistol.

The .45 pistol is a weapon that you can trust your life with, and the lives of your family and friends. A 9mm, in my assessment, just is not as good of a weapon as the .45 pistol.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Spooky on April 13, 2025, 02:17:49 AM

Quote from: D-ko on April 13, 2025, 12:23:10 AMAs long as GPT isn't hallucinating, this chart might be helpful.

Sorry I can't see that

Okay I can see it now thanks.

Um I just don't like it. There is data in these debates that a .45 IS more likely to stop someone than a 9mm. Looking at GURPS stats they always give the .45 a bit more damage (although it varies between books) and less accuracy. GURPS is a pretty reliable physics engine and I tend to trust it.

So I'm changing the stats for the MAC 10 in .45 in PCSACS for my game. Putting the damage (RID only not DC) marginally above the MAC 10 in 9mm and the accuracy ALM marginally worse.

Quote from: moonsweeper on April 13, 2025, 02:26:45 AMIf they have stats for the SW 5906 it will be in the Civilian Weapon Supplement.

Bingo! I have a PDF of that that I forgot I had.



These two models aren't exact but have to be close analogues..? Still researching...

Quote from: SHARK on April 13, 2025, 02:38:43 AMGreetings!

The .45 hits targets like a truck, inflicting enormous damage in blood loss, tissue destruction, and also causing SHOCK. Human beings are like bags of meat getting struck by massive, bloody power that kills them in moments or at the minimum, leaves them entirely incapacitated and helpless from blood loss and shock. Having an arm or leg blown off or turned into mush tends to do that kind of thing to people. Blowing big holes into a person's chest, stomach, or lungs tends to give them plenty to worry about.

9mm, especially when using more modern ballistic ammunition, it is, to my understanding, a decent weapon. However, it still is not as powerful as the .45 pistol.

As far as fatigue goes? Well, I suppose if you are a small man or a woman, that *might* be a consideration. I have fired a .45 all day. Putting hundreds of rounds down range. After a hundred rounds, for myself, there is some modest fatigue. However, that is just when doing training shooting at the range. In a general firefight against actual human enemies, you do not typically need hundreds or dozens of rounds. One or two rounds into a human enemy and they are done.

I have always had consistent, reliable performance from my Glock Model 21 .45 pistol.

The .45 pistol is a weapon that you can trust your life with, and the lives of your family and friends. A 9mm, in my assessment, just is not as good of a weapon as the .45 pistol.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Thanks for that.

Bad ass.

Quote from: SHARK on April 13, 2025, 02:38:43 AMAs far as fatigue goes? Well, I suppose if you are a small man or a woman, that *might* be a consideration. I have fired a .45 all day. Putting hundreds of rounds down range. After a hundred rounds, for myself, there is some modest fatigue. However, that is just when doing training shooting at the range. In a general firefight against actual human enemies, you do not typically need hundreds or dozens of rounds. One or two rounds into a human enemy and they are done.

He's talking about a SMG with a high RoF, not a handgun. The difference in recoil and the fatigue it causes will be considerably different.

Disregard. I thought this was the thread talking about the MAC-10 SMG (available in both 9mm & .45 versions).