Why do RPG developers use China with the political ramifications present?

Zalman · April 12, 2025, 07:56:22 AM

Quote from: RI2 on April 12, 2025, 07:12:58 AMAt least I'll sleep better

Invaluable.

Corolinth · April 12, 2025, 08:03:57 AM

When people talk about Chinese slave labor, they are usually referring to the practice of sending political prisoners like the Uyghur and the Falun Gong to prison work camps on trumped-up charges. Likewise, when people talk about American slave labor, they are referring to the wording of the 13th Amendment that allows slavery to be used as punishment for a crime. Your average liberal activist believes that no black person has ever committed a crime and that blacks are incarcerated to exploit a loophole in the abolition of slavery.

Cathode Ray · April 12, 2025, 08:50:04 AM

I mean, this isn't surprising. A very vocal democrat woman in congress just literally defended human slavery as the reason her party supports illegal immigration. She really said, "we're not going to do those jobs ever again. We're not going back to the plantation." Essentially, we need Illegal immigrants on the plantation picking crops for us. Democrats always were the party of slavery. They are still true to this today.

S'mon · April 12, 2025, 09:01:08 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 12, 2025, 08:50:04 AMI mean, this isn't surprising. A very vocal democrat woman in congress just literally defended human slavery as the reason her party supports illegal immigration. She really said, "we're not going to do those jobs ever again. We're not going back to the plantation." Essentially, we need Illegal immigrants on the plantation picking crops for us. Democrats always were the party of slavery. They are still true to this today.

I'm sure white men will do those jobs if you pay them.

Related,my gf is Indian ethnicity from South Africa and her cultural attitude that manual labour is menial work (in SA, only for black people) is pretty shocking to me. I was brought up with Protestant Work Ethic, Nobility of Toil type ideas. But the Protestant Afrikaners lost that and ended up creating something more like an Antebellum Plantation culture. To me that's a bad thing. Working with your hands should be seen as ennobling not degrading IME.

jeff37923 · April 12, 2025, 09:05:32 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 12, 2025, 08:50:04 AMI mean, this isn't surprising. A very vocal democrat woman in congress just literally defended human slavery as the reason her party supports illegal immigration. She really said, "we're not going to do those jobs ever again. We're not going back to the plantation." Essentially, we need Illegal immigrants on the plantation picking crops for us. Democrats always were the party of slavery. They are still true to this today.

Don't forget the irony that Jasmine Crockett is black.

Brad · April 12, 2025, 09:28:11 PM

Quote from: S'mon on April 12, 2025, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 12, 2025, 08:50:04 AMI mean, this isn't surprising. A very vocal democrat woman in congress just literally defended human slavery as the reason her party supports illegal immigration. She really said, "we're not going to do those jobs ever again. We're not going back to the plantation." Essentially, we need Illegal immigrants on the plantation picking crops for us. Democrats always were the party of slavery. They are still true to this today.

I'm sure white men will do those jobs if you pay them.

Related,my gf is Indian ethnicity from South Africa and her cultural attitude that manual labour is menial work (in SA, only for black people) is pretty shocking to me. I was brought up with Protestant Work Ethic, Nobility of Toil type ideas. But the Protestant Afrikaners lost that and ended up creating something more like an Antebellum Plantation culture. To me that's a bad thing. Working with your hands should be seen as ennobling not degrading IME.

It's very cathartic for me to do yard work; I think people who treat manual labor as beneath them are denying themselves something very valuable. There's nothing like busting your ass all day hauling wheelbarrows full of dirt and seeing the tangible, physical manifestation of your toil. The average office worker cannot point to anything and say they made that, I can say hey look at that treehouse I built for my kids.

Fheredin · April 12, 2025, 10:29:49 PM

Quote from: Brad on April 12, 2025, 09:28:11 PM
Quote from: S'mon on April 12, 2025, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 12, 2025, 08:50:04 AMI mean, this isn't surprising. A very vocal democrat woman in congress just literally defended human slavery as the reason her party supports illegal immigration. She really said, "we're not going to do those jobs ever again. We're not going back to the plantation." Essentially, we need Illegal immigrants on the plantation picking crops for us. Democrats always were the party of slavery. They are still true to this today.

I'm sure white men will do those jobs if you pay them.

Related,my gf is Indian ethnicity from South Africa and her cultural attitude that manual labour is menial work (in SA, only for black people) is pretty shocking to me. I was brought up with Protestant Work Ethic, Nobility of Toil type ideas. But the Protestant Afrikaners lost that and ended up creating something more like an Antebellum Plantation culture. To me that's a bad thing. Working with your hands should be seen as ennobling not degrading IME.

It's very cathartic for me to do yard work; I think people who treat manual labor as beneath them are denying themselves something very valuable. There's nothing like busting your ass all day hauling wheelbarrows full of dirt and seeing the tangible, physical manifestation of your toil. The average office worker cannot point to anything and say they made that, I can say hey look at that treehouse I built for my kids.

I have noticed that my best brainstorms consistently come when I am doing manual labor. It's actually quite rare for me to have a good brainstorm just sitting in my chair.

I can see why people would want to avoid manual labor and create cultural mores to help avoid it, but I don't think either the human body or mind likes inaction, and to some extent if one is being inactive, so is the other.

D-ko · April 12, 2025, 10:51:51 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on April 12, 2025, 08:03:57 AMWhen people talk about Chinese slave labor, they are usually referring to the practice of sending political prisoners like the Uyghur and the Falun Gong to prison work camps on trumped-up charges. Likewise, when people talk about American slave labor, they are referring to the wording of the 13th Amendment that allows slavery to be used as punishment for a crime. Your average liberal activist believes that no black person has ever committed a crime and that blacks are incarcerated to exploit a loophole in the abolition of slavery.

I mean, for-profit prison systems here in the US seem questionable to me. There are those who are against abortion because they ultimately want large numbers of disadvantaged people to exploit-- especially criminals working for under minimum wage.

Mishihari · April 13, 2025, 02:37:02 AM

Money, duh

Valatar · April 13, 2025, 03:11:23 AM

The common refrain that I have heard is that people hiring illegals pay jack shit with terrible conditions and threaten to get them deported if they complain, and that is basically slavery. It can be argued that it's their own fault for coming here illegally in the first place, but I don't think that absolves the people exploiting them and is part of the reason I want only legal immigrants within the borders. A scummy employer is less likely to feel they can get away with sweatshopping legal residents for five bucks an hour. While I know that terrible working conditions exist for legal residents as well, at least theoretically they can get some kind of help from the authorities.

Rhymer88 · April 13, 2025, 04:14:31 AM

For the Dolmenwood kickstarter, the products for the U.S. market are being printed in China, while those for Europe are printed in Lithuania. The backers in the U.S. are probably screwed as a result. Why wasn't everything printed in Lithuania? Unless the U.S. imposes huge tariffs on the EU as well, which is a possibility but currently unlikely, it would pay off. I have never seen a book by a European rpg company that was printed in China. They are all printed within the EU. That's why I never understood why so American companies insisted on printing all their books in China.

bat · April 13, 2025, 10:55:12 AM

In addition to the abhorrent practice of slavery, IP is not often respected, if you have ever lived in a developing country around China (I have) you will see so many knockoffs of things that sometimes it is difficult to know what is legitimate. They even knockoff pharmaceuticals that are inert sent to countries in Africa where there are people expecting actual medication. Surprise.

Insane Nerd Ramblings · April 13, 2025, 01:07:33 PM

Quote from: RNGm on April 11, 2025, 07:14:23 PMAnswer: Because their morality is purely performative.

This. 100% this right here. It's all bullshit to appear 'enlightened'. It's basically 'mean girls' attitude and I don't know if that's because of feminism/feminization or something else entirely. All I know is that its becoming evident our society's psychology is messed up from what it should be....

kosmos1214 · April 14, 2025, 09:59:18 PM

Quote from: bat on April 13, 2025, 10:55:12 AMIn addition to the abhorrent practice of slavery, IP is not often respected, if you have ever lived in a developing country around China (I have) you will see so many knockoffs of things that sometimes it is difficult to know what is legitimate. They even knockoff pharmaceuticals that are inert sent to countries in Africa where there are people expecting actual medication. Surprise.

I can attest to this as an anime fan every now and again buying box sets off ebay you get a bootleg you cant tell from an official release until you have it in hand or in a player.

Anon Adderlan · April 14, 2025, 10:12:19 PM

Remember kids, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, so the usual suspects need to shut up about buying #ChickFilA while simultaneously complaining about the rise in manufacturing costs now that they can't take advantage of the savings offered by (what they themselves would otherwise define as) a fascist country.

Quote from: Fheredin on April 11, 2025, 07:32:15 PMBoth the Left and Corporate America agree on one thing: There is only one God, and its name is Money.

It's always been about the Benjamins.

Quote from: Fheredin on April 11, 2025, 07:32:15 PMI would actually say that China is no longer Communist, but Nazi. After all, it's an ethnic state maintained with propaganda, slavery, ethnic and religious repression, organ harvesting, and most recently, military expansion.

It's never been about consistent ideals.

Quote from: Fheredin on April 11, 2025, 07:32:15 PMChina's end-game with attracting all this manufacturing was to bankrupt almost all manufacturing outside of China, and then once their monopoly was established they could ratchet up the price.

But like any good addict that only becomes an issue once it's too late.

Quote from: RI2 on April 12, 2025, 07:12:58 AMGiven how things are trending, I have no faith that the exemption will be extended again. And I honestly wonder how many of my fellow publishers are even thinking about this.

As for me? I'm still stressed. Why? Because the books are printed and about to be shipped. According to my printer, it takes 5 to 7 weeks for them to arrive. That puts me uncomfortably close to the May 31 tariff exemption deadline.

Next Kickstarter? I'm printing in the U.S. It's the safer bet—even if the cost of paper and potential tariffs are higher on paper. At least I'll sleep better.

And this fear is exactly the point.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 12, 2025, 08:50:04 AMA very vocal democrat woman in congress just literally defended human slavery as the reason her party supports illegal immigration. She really said, "we're not going to do those jobs ever again. We're not going back to the plantation." Essentially, we need Illegal immigrants on the plantation picking crops for us. Democrats always were the party of slavery. They are still true to this today.

If they didn't have double standards...

Quote from: Fheredin on April 12, 2025, 10:29:49 PMI have noticed that my best brainstorms consistently come when I am doing manual labor. It's actually quite rare for me to have a good brainstorm just sitting in my chair.

Empirical evidence has noticed this too.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on April 13, 2025, 04:14:31 AMFor the Dolmenwood kickstarter, the products for the U.S. market are being printed in China, while those for Europe are printed in Lithuania. The backers in the U.S. are probably screwed as a result. Why wasn't everything printed in Lithuania?

Because of the weird fee schedules which make China less expensive than the EU and even Canada when it comes to shipping to the US.