There was some interesting discussion of Narnia in the thread [https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/there-is-no-reason-to-play-a-nonhuman-except-to-use-stereotypes/]"There is no reason to play a nonhuman except to use stereotypes."[/url] In particular, this comment:

Quote from: ForgottenF on March 04, 2025, 09:32:17 PMWhen it comes to comparing to LOTR to Narnia, I really think you ought to look at them as coming from different literary traditions. Middle Earth is drawn from a background in epic literature and mythology, from Beowulf and the Kalevala, whereas Narnia has more in it of Aesop's Fables and Peter Pan. Lewis does sometimes trip over the line into being hamfisted with his allegories (I can barely sit through The Last Battle), but I do find that as a result Narnia feels much more "fairy-tale" to me. I appreciate the boundless imagination that the looser world-building allows for.

That said, I do think the narrative playground is there in Narnia if you just pay attention to the background details. Lewis makes it clear that Narnia is a persistent world where momentous events often occur entirely without the intervention of English schoolchildren. Calormen and Telmar have histories that are only hinted at in the books. The Kingdom of Narnia fights wars with the giants on its north border and apparently with its human neighbors as well. I've said it before here, but I think Narnia is criminally underrated as a potential roleplaying setting. The fact that its history, cosmology and geography are only vaguely sketched in books just gives you more room to invent as a GM. Set your campaign in Archenland sometime between The Horse and His Boy and Prince Caspian and the world is your oyster.

I do find it fascinating that there are over a dozen fan adaptations of Oz to TTRPGs, but almost none of Narnia. I wonder if copyright might have something to do with it. The only RPG that I know of is an official one in German:

https://waveyourgeekflag.blogspot.com/2014/12/narnia-rpg.html?m=1

There's also the Companion to Narnia book which would be useful to anyone running a campaign:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006251136X/qid=1056674730/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-8131772-4013554

ForgottenF suggests a time and place - Archenland. But does anyone have thoughts about what system they'd use? What would PCs look like and what sort of adventures would they have?

I'd be tempted to have children from modern day show up in a future of Narnia. Time being wonky, it could be just a short time in Narnia from when the Pevensie children were there.

I always felt Narnia was blatantly for kids.  Talking animals, crazy adventures, but a lack of violence, no difficult and rare words, and a low page count certainly imply it.

As a setting for an RPG, it's certainly doable.  Again, unless you alter it quite a bit, it will be for the kids.

It does have the "Isekai" trope front and center.  The hero group is typically made up of pre-teen kids from Earth, and a couple of native talking animals and people.

I've only seen one RPG that had Earth Human as a playable choice.  An OSR RPG called Fantastic Heroes & Witchery.  Sure, I've seen it mentioned as an option in one or two games, but never fully developed and playable as part of the core book.

Fantastic Heroes & Witchery on DT:RPG

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 23, 2025, 08:50:34 PMI always felt Narnia was blatantly for kids.  Talking animals, crazy adventures, but a lack of violence, no difficult and rare words, and a low page count certainly imply it.

I would say that was true of some of the earlier published stories, later Lewis thankfully walked back some of it being overtly just Christian allegory, some of the later stories and extra material pertaining to the White Witch get fairly lovecraftian.

I was working on a retro clonish version of ICE's old Lord of the Rings Adventure game before Christmas but it devolved a bit towards generic fantasy and some world building before I fizzled out.  There was a Prydain area and a Narnia area.  Incidentally, when you think about it, Prydain is in or adjacent to Dunland.  Anyhow, The Narnia area was founded by a mighty king as a preserve for his loyal talking horse, you see with all the various magicians stuck in forms they changed into and princesses and princesses transformed into animals and the like, there were a lot of talking animals around causing all kinds of social issues.  So the king gave them a homeland.  Was his heraldry a rampant lion?  Well of course it was.  There's also a shrine to all the children from our world who died in the magical kingdom, heroically or otherwise.

It's misleading to use the term "allegory" to describe the Narnia stories.

QuoteIf Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair represents Despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality however he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, 'What might Christ become like, if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?' This is not allegory at all.

Letters of C.S. Lewis

If I were playing in Narnia, I certainly wouldn't want to play a "murderhobo" gold for xp style of game. I'd much rather the games felt more like a pre-1950(ish) Disney fantasy film. Focus on fairy tale logic and morality. That kinda thing.

Man what a strong OP, this thread has a ton of potential.

QuoteBut does anyone have thoughts about what system they'd use? What would PCs look like and what sort of adventures would they have?

Well I see a big potential problem- you could basically have an entire campaign that is two human nations warring, with various animals running support roles, and maybe questing for some magical items to turn the tides.  This is all proper stuff for the setting, but you'd have to be careful to try to focus on the types of events that could occur in the actual stories, not just things that could occur in the setting.  Unlike, Forgotten Realms, you would have to kind of hammer it kinda lightly to make it actually feel like Narnia and not like, some brutal historical battle with some magic animals on the sideline.

I don't think the system would be too important for getting the right feel- I bet you could run it with anything from B/X to Pathfinder 2, and it would be easier with any OSR system just because you wouldn't need to port and tweak nearly as much.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on March 24, 2025, 12:02:04 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 23, 2025, 08:50:34 PMI always felt Narnia was blatantly for kids.  Talking animals, crazy adventures, but a lack of violence, no difficult and rare words, and a low page count certainly imply it.

I would say that was true of some of the earlier published stories, later Lewis thankfully walked back some of it being overtly just Christian allegory, some of the later stories and extra material pertaining to the White Witch get fairly lovecraftian.

Haven't read The Last Battle, have we?

Two points:

• Even if an author of a work says something in a letter, if it isn't in the book, it isn't canon. It's interpretation. I had this exact issue with Rowling making Dumbledore gay.
• The Chronicles of Narnia books are not all in the same literary genre.

By modern standards Lewis as a fiction writer is a bit of a klutz. This is not to say that his work isn't better than modern DEI nonsense, but that he mostly failed to draw clean creative or genre lines. The early books are what we would today call normal speculative fiction, but as the books progress the allegorical elements start to come into play. It's never a true allegory the way The Pilgrim's Regress is, but it isn't completely devoid of allegorical elements, either. Putting on my book editor cap, Lewis clearly bit off way more than he could chew by trying to write a children's book, then to expand it with allegorical elements as the book series progressed. I can only think of one author who has tried something analogous; Rowling with Harry Potter, and Rowling was way more restrained with the allegorical elements.

I admire the ambition and the fact that Lewis didn't completely wreck the landing with no survivors. But at the same time, Lewis did crash land.


If I had to pick a Lewis book series to roleplay in, I would probably actually opt for The Space Trilogy. Lewis's interpretation of Mars is actually quite the interesting take on a fantasy setting with multiple races. Don't get me wrong; it's not fantastic, but I think that most groups would enjoy it better than they would Narnia. This isn't to say The Space Trilogy is flawless, either, but that The Space Trilogy isn't really anybody's sacred cow.

It's increasingly clear to me that other people do not see what I see when reading those books.

I've put some though into This. First off: I think I said this in the other thread, but I absolutely would not include children from the real world as PCs in a Narnia Campaign. I don't understand why some people seem to think that's compulsory. Using real-world children gets you in for all the problems child PCs have in any game, and they also push you towards having a "destined hero" in your party, since children are called to Narnia by Aslan to fulfill specific tasks. A rough list of the playable races I would use would be:

-Human (Calormene)
-Human (Archenlander)
-Human (Telmarine)
-Faun
-Dwarf (Red)
-Dwarf (Black)
-Centaur
-Marsh-Wiggle

You could do talking animals, but I think they'd be a rules-hassle and they'd work just fine as NPCs.

For a rules system, my first pick would be The Hero's Journey 2e. I think it has the best class selection for that kind of traditional fairytale vibe, particularly with the Yeoman (everyman) class and the absence of a Cleric. Cleric is going to be big mismatch for Narnia (or most literary settings for that matter). I imagine a lot of people would raise an objection to having a wizard class for Narnia, as they would for Middle Earth, but there are two good-aligned magicians that appear in the series, one in Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and one in The Horse and His Boy. Both seem like they could plausibly be high level PCs. The one in Dawn Treader is implied (or stated, I forget) to be a fallen star like Ramandu at the end of the book, but the one in Horse is apparently just a regular guy. The Hero's Journey spell list and system is also IMO a good match for that style of fantasy.

You could also use something like Ryuutama, but I don't think it's quite as good of a fit.

What kind of adventure would your PCs go on? Whatever you want. Looking at the books, Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Horse and His Boy and The Silver Chair are all structured like standard fantasy adventures. You want dungeon crawls? Calormen has it's own Valley of Kings. There's a ruined city in Silver Chair, plus an entire subterranean realm which is implied to run under much of Narnia. Wilderness exploration? The Ettinsmoor and Lantern Waste are calling. Piracy? Lone Islands. Palace intrigue? Take your pick. Depending on time period there are three or four feudal kingdoms in Narnia. You need monsters? There are about a dozen monster types listed as being in the White Witch's following in the first book, and clearly implied to have gone into hiding after her defeat.

But the point really is that you don't need to use what is explicitly in the books. The fact that there is so much variety in them gives you license to invent in the massive amount of unclaimed space the books don't cover.

Quote from: Fheredin on March 24, 2025, 09:50:02 AM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on March 24, 2025, 12:02:04 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 23, 2025, 08:50:34 PMI always felt Narnia was blatantly for kids.  Talking animals, crazy adventures, but a lack of violence, no difficult and rare words, and a low page count certainly imply it.

I would say that was true of some of the earlier published stories, later Lewis thankfully walked back some of it being overtly just Christian allegory, some of the later stories and extra material pertaining to the White Witch get fairly lovecraftian.

Haven't read The Last Battle, have we?

Two points:

• Even if an author of a work says something in a letter, if it isn't in the book, it isn't canon. It's interpretation. I had this exact issue with Rowling making Dumbledore gay.
• The Chronicles of Narnia books are not all in the same literary genre.

By modern standards Lewis as a fiction writer is a bit of a klutz. This is not to say that his work isn't better than modern DEI nonsense, but that he mostly failed to draw clean creative or genre lines. The early books are what we would today call normal speculative fiction, but as the books progress the allegorical elements start to come into play. It's never a true allegory the way The Pilgrim's Regress is, but it isn't completely devoid of allegorical elements, either. Putting on my book editor cap, Lewis clearly bit off way more than he could chew by trying to write a children's book, then to expand it with allegorical elements as the book series progressed. I can only think of one author who has tried something analogous; Rowling with Harry Potter, and Rowling was way more restrained with the allegorical elements.

I admire the ambition and the fact that Lewis didn't completely wreck the landing with no survivors. But at the same time, Lewis did crash land.


If I had to pick a Lewis book series to roleplay in, I would probably actually opt for The Space Trilogy. Lewis's interpretation of Mars is actually quite the interesting take on a fantasy setting with multiple races. Don't get me wrong; it's not fantastic, but I think that most groups would enjoy it better than they would Narnia. This isn't to say The Space Trilogy is flawless, either, but that The Space Trilogy isn't really anybody's sacred cow.

This is your allotted single reply for this thread, but no I did not read the Last Battle, my relation to Lewis' fiction is more tenuous than his other works.

What I am referring to are things that happened in the cannon texts which I have read which gave that implication to me. The Deplorable Word as a concept in relation to the White Witch, a word so potent it can wipe all life from a universe certainly sounds existentially nightmarish, and certainly transcends her from being merely a Satan metaphor.

but addressing point 1 a bit,  a counter example, a good chunk of Tolkien's explanations for things in his setting can only be found in his notes/letters or extra material, but I doubt you'd take any issue in treating those as cannon? even if treated as secondary they'd still be in consideration.
you dislike how Rowling handled it partly for partisan reasons and secondly for the spirit in which the changes were invoked.

There were also the Narnia gemebooks from way back. Not RPGs deapite what BGG claims. But still pretty good and some of the few Narnia gameing material.

I dont think there is even a Narnia wargame is there?

One of the big things in the books is that non-humans are nearly all NPCs. The other thing is that magic in the hands of the PCs is also nearly all NPC side. The PCs have items... sometimes.

One approach would be to handle it like the AD&D Conan modules did. Ruthlessly limit what classes the PCs have access to. Otherwise you might as well use something freaky like older Gamma World or Palladium's TMNT crossed with Palladium Fantasy.

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2025, 10:15:17 PMThere were also the Narnia gemebooks from way back. Not RPGs deapite what BGG claims. But still pretty good and some of the few Narnia gameing material.

  And Iron Crown had a full RPG planned ... but it turned out they'd licensed the gamebooks and RPG from someone who didn't have the right to grant sublicenses, and the Lewis estate (the actual estate, not a rightsholder like "Tolkien Enterprises") came down on them hard.

  I owned the first one, "Return to Deathwater," and I can actually remember some faint echoes of MERP/RM in the skill system (3 points for +2, -1 or -2 if you don't assign any ranks, if memory serves).

  Personally, I'm kind of glad it fell through. The current hobby culture can just barely handle Middle-Earth; I think it's far too cynical, flippant, and Christophobic to do Narnia.

I never knew that there was a German Narnia rpg. It was published in 2008 and is, apparently, no longer in print. I've ordered it online and will tell you guys more once I've received it.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on March 24, 2025, 12:02:04 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 23, 2025, 08:50:34 PMI always felt Narnia was blatantly for kids.  Talking animals, crazy adventures, but a lack of violence, no difficult and rare words, and a low page count certainly imply it.

I would say that was true of some of the earlier published stories, later Lewis thankfully walked back some of it being overtly just Christian allegory, some of the later stories and extra material pertaining to the White Witch get fairly lovecraftian.

I would argue that C.S. Lewis didn't walk it back at all but pushed more into it later in the series. The Magician's Nephew is the most theologically Christian of the Books.  The entire series is all about falling into sin and redemption.   

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 24, 2025, 10:19:47 PMPersonally, I'm kind of glad it fell through. The current hobby culture can just barely handle Middle-Earth; I think it's far too cynical, flippant, and Christophobic to do Narnia.

Pretty much this.  The argument that "it's too childish" seems silly, given that I can cite RPGs that are "childish" by any definition you'd like to use (too kid focused, too moralistic, too simple in its morality, too absurd, etc.).
 The more I think on it though, wasn't Blue Rose basically Narnia for the social progressive crowd (as social progressives looked twenty years ago)?

On the other hand, it'd be great to see people wailing and gnashing about The Problem of Susan, to show they'd read more commentary on the books than the books themselves.  And yes, put me firmly in the camp of "the author's notes should weigh heavily in all consideration of the works they created, and while technically aren't canon are certainly an elevated level of authority."  But even without said notes, the texts themselves answer the part of the "Problem" people care about pretty well (i.e. Susan will eventually be a Queen of Narnia again).

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 24, 2025, 10:19:47 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2025, 10:15:17 PMThere were also the Narnia gemebooks from way back. Not RPGs deapite what BGG claims. But still pretty good and some of the few Narnia gameing material.

  And Iron Crown had a full RPG planned ... but it turned out they'd licensed the gamebooks and RPG from someone who didn't have the right to grant sublicenses, and the Lewis estate (the actual estate, not a rightsholder like "Tolkien Enterprises") came down on them hard.

  I owned the first one, "Return to Deathwater," and I can actually remember some faint echoes of MERP/RM in the skill system (3 points for +2, -1 or -2 if you don't assign any ranks, if memory serves).

  Personally, I'm kind of glad it fell through. The current hobby culture can just barely handle Middle-Earth; I think it's far too cynical, flippant, and Christophobic to do Narnia.

Exactly