Quote from: Brad on March 15, 2025, 09:33:06 AMI got the email about this yesterday and thought it was for Mongoose, then realized it was for actual Traveller and became confused...45 years better late than never?

My question is not whether or not anyone playing Traveller should get this, but really what the market is beyond a small core of players who probably use all sorts of other resources. Is this a nostalgia catch grab, a legitimate foray into reviving CT, just a one off for fun? I run CT sometimes but liberally steal from Cepheus, Mongoose, and T5 (I know), so I'm wondering why I'd need this. I mean of course I do, but other people may not.

^^This^^

vv Also This vv

Piracy and Privateering
Skull and Crossbones: Piracy in Clement Sector

Quote from: BadApple on March 15, 2025, 09:54:54 AM

Quote from: Brad on March 15, 2025, 09:33:06 AMI got the email about this yesterday and thought it was for Mongoose, then realized it was for actual Traveller and became confused...45 years better late than never?

My question is not whether or not anyone playing Traveller should get this, but really what the market is beyond a small core of players who probably use all sorts of other resources. Is this a nostalgia catch grab, a legitimate foray into reviving CT, just a one off for fun? I run CT sometimes but liberally steal from Cepheus, Mongoose, and T5 (I know), so I'm wondering why I'd need this. I mean of course I do, but other people may not.

^^This^^

vv Also This vv

Piracy and Privateering
Skull and Crossbones: Piracy in Clement Sector

Oh, I've got my Mark 1 Eyeball looking for any sales figures I can find on this Book 9: Pirates.

Sadly, the owner of Independence Games doesn't want their games associated at all with Traveller and Mongoose Publishing in particular.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 15, 2025, 11:11:32 AM

Quote from: BadApple on March 15, 2025, 09:54:54 AM

Quote from: Brad on March 15, 2025, 09:33:06 AMI got the email about this yesterday and thought it was for Mongoose, then realized it was for actual Traveller and became confused...45 years better late than never?

My question is not whether or not anyone playing Traveller should get this, but really what the market is beyond a small core of players who probably use all sorts of other resources. Is this a nostalgia catch grab, a legitimate foray into reviving CT, just a one off for fun? I run CT sometimes but liberally steal from Cepheus, Mongoose, and T5 (I know), so I'm wondering why I'd need this. I mean of course I do, but other people may not.

^^This^^

vv Also This vv

Piracy and Privateering
Skull and Crossbones: Piracy in Clement Sector

Oh, I've got my Mark 1 Eyeball looking for any sales figures I can find on this Book 9: Pirates.

Sadly, the owner of Independence Games doesn't want their games associated at all with Traveller and Mongoose Publishing in particular.

Independence Games makes cool stuff that's really great to stitch into my game.  It's a complete game with a core book and a butt ton of good supplements.  (I'm a little freaked out by the doll people in the art but I can look past that.)

In reality, it is based on Cepheus Engine, which in turn is based on the Mongoose Traveller 1e SRD released under OGL.  I can understand his desire to have some distance but I still just see it as Traveller in the same way as Lion and Dragon is D&D to me. 

Still, I hope he (the owner) keeps making cool stuff.  I have a few recommendations for new content if he ever had an ear for them.

Has Classic Traveller been a "dead game" for decades? COTI has over 2k threads just for this edition alone with posts up to last Wednesday. Is there someone out there travelling around (no pun intended) designating whether an rpg is "alive" or not?

I think there are four primary angles you can take on this issue.

1. A game being a alive is dependent on people playing it: Now as to how many and the specifics, those can be debated, but in general if people are still playing a specific gameline  even if the publisher has abandoned it, it's still alive. d6 star wars is still well and alive in this context, so is the setting of Mystera, there is still a sizable interest in playing those games/settings even if the publisher or licence holder isn't

2. A game being alive is dependent on if it's still in print: Basically is the game still in print and are people still buying it? this is a much more strict idea of "being alive" and I suspect a good many games don't pass this threshold or idea, though with the advent of print on demand, and collectable market, a lot of these games are some sort of "undead" state.

3. A game being alive is dependent on it still making revenue: Basically a stricter version of of position 2, does this game have a sizable and real market/ecosystem around it? I often hear this position held by marketing types, which of course doesn't really surprise anyone.

4. Does the Game have a sizable mindshare: Is the game remembered, talked about or still have an influence? just for the sake of argument, Classic Travller might not be played often or bought, but the sheer volume of games directly inspired or based on that game means it's spiritually quite alive. the ideas and concepts it brought forth are still with us.  A personal example of concept 4 is something like Darksun, I don't hear anyone directly playing in that setting, but the amount of games that are directly inspired by it or take big elements from it are pretty common. 


I fall somewhere on a mix of positions 1 & 4

Plenty of dead games could come back if the rights weren't locked behind fascist copyright laws.

In praise of the "dead" game.

So, a game is "dead".  In other words, no new material is available for it.

What a wonderful thing!

Here is a world that anyone can visit at any time.  And since it is a "dead" world, it's free from all the hype and commercialism and people trying to poison it with wokeness, [EDIT: and all the tournament mentality,] and it's just as playable as it was on the day it was published.  These were not designed with an expiration date. 

I found one of those worlds, and am having a great time in it.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on March 15, 2025, 06:45:35 PMIn praise of the "dead" game.

So, a game is "dead".  In other words, no new material is available for it.

What a wonderful thing!

Here is a world that anyone can visit at any time.  And since it is a "dead" world, it's free from all the hype and commercialism and people trying to poison it with wokeness, [EDIT: and all the tournament mentality,] and it's just as playable as it was on the day it was published.  These were not designed with an expiration date. 

I found one of those worlds, and am having a great time in it.

Amen to that, I've been running a fan made RPG for a series I like from 10 years ago lol, you couldn't really do this for any other hobby (then again I was remastered the documentation for the stuff outside of the corebook, so IDK if it'd really be dead there lol)

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 15, 2025, 11:11:32 AMOh, I've got my Mark 1 Eyeball looking for any sales figures I can find on this Book 9: Pirates.

 #13 on DTRPG at the moment, and already a Copper Best Seller after 3 days.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on March 15, 2025, 02:50:02 PMI think there are four primary angles you can take on this issue.

1. A game being a alive is dependent on people playing it: Now as to how many and the specifics, those can be debated, but in general if people are still playing a specific gameline  even if the publisher has abandoned it, it's still alive. d6 star wars is still well and alive in this context, so is the setting of Mystera, there is still a sizable interest in playing those games/settings even if the publisher or licence holder isn't

2. A game being alive is dependent on if it's still in print: Basically is the game still in print and are people still buying it? this is a much more strict idea of "being alive" and I suspect a good many games don't pass this threshold or idea, though with the advent of print on demand, and collectable market, a lot of these games are some sort of "undead" state.

3. A game being alive is dependent on it still making revenue: Basically a stricter version of of position 2, does this game have a sizable and real market/echosystem around it? I often hear this position held by marketing types, which of course doesn't really surprise anyone.

4. Does the Game have a sizable mindshare: Is the game remembered, talked about or still have an influence? just for the sake of argument, Classic Travller might not be played often or bought, but the sheer volume of games directly inspired or based on that game means it's spiritually quite alive. the ideas and concepts it brought forth are still with us.  A personal example of concept 4 is something like Darksun, I don't hear anyone directly playing in that setting, but the amount of games that are directly inspired by it or take big elements from it are pretty common. 


I fall somewhere on a mix of positions 1 & 2.

Well, the answer to all of your sandwich chart categories in this case is a resounding "yes". Although your category 2 and 3 sound like the same thing. I'm assuming echosystem is a typo.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 16, 2025, 10:26:24 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 15, 2025, 11:11:32 AMOh, I've got my Mark 1 Eyeball looking for any sales figures I can find on this Book 9: Pirates.

 #13 on DTRPG at the moment, and already a Copper Best Seller after 3 days.

Yes! And that is only on DTRPG for the PDF. I think most of the sales are going to be through the Mongoose website where you get a printed copy and a free PDF, but I haven't seen any sales figures for that one.

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 16, 2025, 12:07:17 PMWell, the answer to all of your sandwich chart categories in this case is a resounding "yes". Although your category 2 and 3 sound like the same thing. I'm assuming echosystem is a typo.

Position 3 is simply a stricter version of position 2.

But you think all four criteria must be in play for a gameline to be considered alive?

I guess the followup question. is your enjoyment of a game dependent in any way on a game being "alive"?

Classic "TRAVELLER' and the LittlebBlack Books is what got me into gaming consistently when I was a teenager.
 I had tried a few D&D game sessions - but it never 'stuck' with me or really sparked my interest. (especially because of one weird group of teenagers)

The Far Future Sci Fi adventuring kept me intersted as a player, then later got me to GM or reff my frirst few game sessions.

- Ed C.

Dunno about the OP, but I personally do think #s 1-4 matter for enjoyment. 1 in the sense of finding groups. 2 in the sense of finding content. 3 in the development pace of new playable content. And 4 in the general sense of community and applicable game theory discussion/internal innovation.

Quote from: Brad on March 15, 2025, 09:33:06 AMIs this a nostalgia catch grab, a legitimate foray into reviving CT, just a one off for fun?

The latter, really - at least, initially.

We had the chance, we like Classic Traveller, so... why not? I mean, what is the point of having a games company if you can't do the stuff you find cool?

The response has been somewhat more powerful than we had expected though. Maybe we will try a Supplement?

Quote from: jeff37923 on March 15, 2025, 11:11:32 AMOh, I've got my Mark 1 Eyeball looking for any sales figures I can find on this Book 9: Pirates.

Book 9: Pirates is not on general release, so that will not be easy. You can track things on Drivethru, but most PDF sales go through our own website these days. Still, good enough for us to think about another LBB book at some point.

Quote from: Koltar on March 16, 2025, 05:07:29 PMThe Far Future Sci Fi adventuring kept me intersted as a player, then later got me to GM or reff my frirst few game sessions.

You are obviously someone of culture and taste.