I get the feeling 5E24 got caught between two stools--"Don't kill the goose laying the golden eggs" and "give us something fresh and new we can sell for the 50th Anniversary."

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 05, 2025, 08:17:23 PMI get the feeling 5E24 got caught between two stools--"Don't kill the goose laying the golden eggs" and "give us something fresh and new we can sell for the 50th Anniversary."

Yup. It's the classic edition problem.

I remember how 4th edition HERO System was very successful in 1989, but HERO Games was then stuck - and their eventually attempts at new editions did badly. (I have a minor credit in 5th edition, but I still prefer 4th.)

Quote from: jhkim on March 05, 2025, 08:27:32 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 05, 2025, 08:17:23 PMI get the feeling 5E24 got caught between two stools--"Don't kill the goose laying the golden eggs" and "give us something fresh and new we can sell for the 50th Anniversary."

Yup. It's the classic edition problem.

I remember how 4th edition HERO System was very successful in 1989, but HERO Games was then stuck - and their eventually attempts at new editions did badly. (I have a minor credit in 5th edition, but I still prefer 4th.)

   I don't know if I'd say 5th Edition "did badly" when it revived a system that everyone had written off as dead and kept it going with strong support for several years, and in the midst of the d20 boom at that.

   6th Edition definitely fell short of expectations.

Quote from: JasperAK on March 05, 2025, 07:34:19 PM

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 06:57:57 PMAll 5.5E really did was create a need for a 6th Edition to clean the slate.

We'll see in two years that this was the goal all the time.

You may be right. But WotC has burned up so much good will lately, I'm not sure a new edition will work out for them.

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: JasperAK on March 05, 2025, 07:34:19 PM

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 06:57:57 PMAll 5.5E really did was create a need for a 6th Edition to clean the slate.

We'll see in two years that this was the goal all the time.

You may be right. But WotC has burned up so much good will lately, I'm not sure a new edition will work out for them.

If there is an actual 6th edition I expect it to be via a licensed third-party.

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: JasperAK on March 05, 2025, 07:34:19 PM

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 06:57:57 PMAll 5.5E really did was create a need for a 6th Edition to clean the slate.

We'll see in two years that this was the goal all the time.

You may be right. But WotC has burned up so much good will lately, I'm not sure a new edition will work out for them.

Heh. Yeah, lets send Pinkerton after people who opened their mail and retroactively assume control of everything using the OGL license! How could this backfire as we plan for Beyond, 6E, and the future? Let's also randomly edit books we've already released, use AI art secretly, and so much more!

5E's gravity was their own worst enemy here. The future of D&D may well be "5e compatible" and "OSR compatible" and their new 2024E or 5.5E may not be able to escape those black holes of marketing and customer acceptance.

WOTC will never beat 2014 5E D&D.  That shadow will forever loom large, over them.

Quote from: D-ko on March 12, 2025, 06:23:39 PM

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: JasperAK on March 05, 2025, 07:34:19 PM

Quote from: Horace on March 05, 2025, 06:57:57 PMAll 5.5E really did was create a need for a 6th Edition to clean the slate.

We'll see in two years that this was the goal all the time.

You may be right. But WotC has burned up so much good will lately, I'm not sure a new edition will work out for them.

Heh. Yeah, lets send Pinkerton after people who opened their mail and retroactively assume control of everything using the OGL license! How could this backfire as we plan for Beyond, 6E, and the future? Let's also randomly edit books we've already released, use AI art secretly, and so much more!

Just say no, to the Pinkertons.  They are not the police.  They don't come rolling in with search warrants and police dogs. 

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 13, 2025, 05:22:57 AMWOTC will never beat 2014 5E D&D.  That shadow will forever loom large, over them.

Well, they certainly won't beat it if they don't hire actual game designers. But I could see someone someday beating it, whether that's WotC or some company they license D&D to.

Quote from: yosemitemike on March 03, 2025, 12:05:14 AMI think part of it is timing.  WotC is trying to move D&D to a live service subscription model with microtransactions at the same time that many consumers are soundly rejecting that model.  A lot of people are just fed up with this sort of thing. 

Alot of venues are sometimes as much as a decade out of touch with their customer base.

Others were never in touch with their customer base.

I just watched a Tolarian Community College on the prices for the upcoming Final Fantasy Universes Beyond set. Yes, I do think this is relevant to the 2024 PHB because the supermajority of WotC's revenue comes from Magic: The Gathering, so you can't properly understand WotC's or Hasbro's headspace about how they view WotC as a business without looking at MTG.

It's not good. Booster boxes MSRP for over $200, collector booster boxes MSRP for $450. The premium EDH decks are MSRPing for $150. For those of you who don't or haven't played MTG, these prices are roughly double what they were before COVID. These are the numbers you would expect from a company which is desperate for cash and is willing to strip mine their consumer-base to make a quarterly. And while that doesn't appear to exactly be true of WotC itself, that attitude makes perfect sense for larger Hasbro.

If that's the case for Magic--the goose which lays the golden eggs--then the 2024 PHB was likely a simple cash grab. Chances are large stretches of the book were AI generated and WotC may have limited intention to give it long term support.

Quote from: Fheredin on March 15, 2025, 08:17:23 AMChances are large stretches of the book were AI generated and WotC may have limited intention to give it long term support.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 15, 2025, 09:11:44 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on March 15, 2025, 08:17:23 AMChances are large stretches of the book were AI generated and WotC may have limited intention to give it long term support.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Anyone can generate the evidence in no time flat.       AI would have to be purposefully and consistently mistrained like the diverse and female Catholic pope and founding father generating google AI gemini in order to have to come up with the 2024 art at least.

Quote from: RNGm on March 15, 2025, 02:36:47 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 15, 2025, 09:11:44 AM

Quote from: Fheredin on March 15, 2025, 08:17:23 AMChances are large stretches of the book were AI generated and WotC may have limited intention to give it long term support.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Anyone can generate the evidence in no time flat.       AI would have to be purposefully and consistently mistrained like the diverse and female Catholic pope and founding father generating google AI gemini in order to have to come up with the 2024 art at least.

So that's a "no" then?