<edit> misread the post

Quote from: D-ko on February 05, 2025, 04:46:39 PMOkay, here we go. Spelljammer's Into The Void takes place in 1361 DR. All the 5E classic adventures are around 1490 DR. Either the astral planes are just very expansive or something was lost. I guess Spelljammer could be the equivalent of aliens visiting Earth, but why wouldn't kingdoms worship them as Gods in that case? Again, I don't know that much about the lore.

I know the Spelljammer lore quite well. Spelljammer is ret-conned into the continuity of three main settings, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, and the Forgotten Realms via their respective supplments "Krynnspace", "Greyspace", and "Realmspace".

The backdrop of Spelljammer is that there are Sphere-spanning empires and cultures much like in Star Wars, with this event called the Unhuman Wars between the Scro (advanced Orcs), and Imperial Elven Fleet which raged about ten-thousand+ years ago. They created horrifying bio-weapons that in-setting are world-shaking quasi-MacGuffins (Witchlight Marauders for instance) that eventually ended with the Elves winning victory at great cost.

The traditional Elven settlements you all know in Dragonlance, Realms and Greyhawk are really just localized outposts of the actual Elven Imperial Fleet. Imperial Elves are *militant* and pretty jingoistic because they know the monstrosities that exist in Wildspace. Beholders, Illithid, Scro, Gith, Neogi - and many more, all have their own empires, and largely it's the Elven Imperial fleet - alongside various human nations (depends on the Sphere) that keep them in check.

There is an ad-hoc Prime Directive in not interfering with terrestrial cultures - not because they don't want to "tamper" with cultures, but because Spelljammer culture *doesn't give a shit* (largely) of cultures that are strictly terrestrial. They look down on most of them as being kinda backwater and hokey.

The cultures that are "advanced" - like Greyhawk, or Waterdeep, or the Imperial Courts of Wa (yes! Oriental Adventure) - all know about Spelljammer and Wildspace and have rules for Spelljamming ships interacting with their cultures. Most of these cultures are trying to become Wildpace-faring in their own right. MOST cultures are unaware of Spelljamming, but they certainly can run across it if you want to start integrating it. Yes, it could come across as "aliens" - but it could also just be funny I mean, after all Spelljamming ships could look like just a flying galleon. Or it could be a giant spider filled with Eel-headed spider-monsters and Umber Hulk slaves looking to nab people for abduction.

There's lots of ways to introduce it to your games. And frankly, I was quite skeptical of Spelljammer for years. Once I was fully exposed to it, I've become an avid convert of it as a truly unique meta-setting. It allows you to use *all* your fantasy gaming material as you see fit in one bit super-setting that simply rocks.

Quote from: tenbones on February 07, 2025, 10:33:04 AM

Quote from: D-ko on February 05, 2025, 04:46:39 PMThere's lots of ways to introduce it to your games. And frankly, I was quite skeptical of Spelljammer for years. Once I was fully exposed to it, I've become an avid convert of it as a truly unique meta-setting. It allows you to use *all* your fantasy gaming material as you see fit in one bit super-setting that simply rocks.

More important question, have you Savaged it?

Spelljammer was one of the least-successful campaign settings released by TSR: it was simply too fantastical and genre-bending. I think it came from the whole "Princess Ark" series from Bruce Heard.

Nothing particularly wrong with it, but it served a niche audience, and I didn't have any interest.

It transitions well into the super-heroic, multiverse adventures, and fantastical themes of 5e D&D.

I go the other way with my games: more realism, real-world analogy, horror, suspense, etc.

I'm completely burnt out on D&D fantasy

I ran a short Spelljammer campaign back when it first came out.  My players had fun flying around on their ship and going wherever they took a mind to go.  It was really tiring for me.  I have never leaned so hard on random tables before or since.  It only lasted a few months before I burned out.  A multi-star system sandbox is a lot and then there's wildspace itself.

I ran Planescape back in the day but it was really a Sigil game more than a Planescape game.  They were a group of adventurers from the prime material plane trying to carve a niche for themselves in Sigil.  They never left the city.  It only lasted until level 6 before real life interfered so they never really did the planar stuff. 

My problem with both was that they were "Multiversal" settings, where "Multiverse" meant "D&D style fantasy".  Even Ravenloft had a more diverse array of settings (albeit small and illogical) to adventure in.

Quote from: Chainsaw Surgeon on February 09, 2025, 09:30:39 AMMore important question, have you Savaged it?

Working on Ship Combat rules now.

After that, it's a matter of ship-writeups, race write-ups (Hadozee, Giff, Gith/Githyanki/Githzerai, Scro etc), new Edges, Setting Rules (I play with Special interests rules for skills), Gear re-fluffing, New Spelljammer specific Spells.

I'm also toying with mini-Iconic frameworks for special things to "allow/inflict" PC's to play Bionoids, Illthid-hybrids, and a few other things that might be fun.

Cool.  Spelljammer is something I considered doing a few times with Savage Worlds.  I have not looked at the SciFi Companions Clash rules but they are supposedly designed for starship combat. 

I own it. I'm deciding on whether to use the rules there (modified for Spelljammer combat), or just translate all the Spelljammer rules from the War Captain's Companion to SWADE and make it more tactical and gritty.

Spelljammer ship-combat can get pretty dramatic in its own right, SWADE could handle it, but there is something personal about the D&D edition's rules that really make you feel it.

I'm of the general opinion that when translating editions to Savage Worlds, the SWADE system works best when directly trying to encapsulate the conceits of the original system. Fortunately it's robust and adaptable enough to just stick with the core-rules where necessary or due to ease of use. I'm still weighing options.

Planescape and Spelljammer are more proof that these game designers smoke a lot of pot. Like anytime I watch "The Big Lebowski" I think TSR.

More proof? The Monster Manuals.

Spelljammer is basically D&D trying to be Star Wars/Star Trek by way of Baron Munchausen.

It only take elements of generic D&D and scales them up with a pinch of sci-fi space opera into it.

Elves and Orc conflict is now akin to the Elder-Space races warring with one another. Monsters that were simply "monsters of nightmare" now have a place to have an origin - Beholders and Illithid are star-faring races that have existed for thousands of years in their respective domains in nooks and crannies across the cosmos.

You have elements of Star War's 'rim-culture' where you can do Space Tortuga. You have cosmic mysteries akin to Star Trek's "Crystal Entity" or just weird shit for your PC's to experience that would make *zero* sense in a "standard" fantasy setting, but in the Spelljammer setting not only makes perfect sense, adds depth beyond even the established Spelljammer assumptions.

Spelljammer is a Mandelbrot of a *lot* of fantasy tropes and has its own emergent ones nicely attached to them.


Planescape on the other hand, is a very flavored expression of what I think is a natural emergent possibility of  the 1e's cosmic wheel. Why *not* have a centralized setting at the center of all planes? While the flavor of Planescape, and Sigil in particular might not be to everyone's tastes, you can't deny that conceptually it really does work. Nothing prevents one from re-calibrating it to their liking, obviously. I think it was a very honest stab at doing original work on what has already been established without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

As to their success? Yeah they didn't sell through... yet they definitely have their fanbases. But I suspect perhaps they were ahead of their time?

Spelljammer: This was so goofy that I couldn't take it seriously as a setting.

Planescape: This had more potential, but I found that I preferred to use my own ideas about how the planes work, factions, and so on. I think the setting concept is okay, but preferred my own spin rather than TSR's implementation.