Shadowdark vs Old School Essentials

weirdguy564 · February 01, 2025, 07:38:22 PM

Old School Essentials used to be mentioned around this forum quite a lot. It almost seemed to be the front runner for Best OSR Game.

Now, it seems like Shadowdark is getting a lot of the praise.

I know that I prefer Shadowdark over OSE.

Am I alone in this?

dungeonmonkey · February 01, 2025, 07:48:33 PM

I am playing in an OSE game now. I prefer it to Shadowdark (even though I supported Shadowdark's kickstarter at a high pledge level).

I don't really have that much critical to say about Shadowdark. I find the criticisms that have been aired about it in this forum unpersuasive.

But I'll probably never play Shadowdark. OSE, Swords & Wizardry, Black Hack all scratch that itch better for me.

That might be a reflection of when and where I started. I began playing AD&D in the 1980s.

Jaeger · February 01, 2025, 08:27:02 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2025, 07:38:22 PMOld School Essentials used to be mentioned around this forum quite a lot. It almost seemed to be the front runner for Best OSR Game.

Now, it seems like Shadowdark is getting a lot of the praise.

I know that I prefer Shadowdark over OSE.

Am I alone in this?

I prefer the way ShadowDark does Classes and casting.

Outside of that; OSE is the more complete game.

SD could have very easily been an OSE hack.

bat · February 02, 2025, 07:37:21 PM

Have both, will be running OSE in an hour and a half because it just seems easier for the group to get and so much material runs with it seamlessly, including its own supplements, like Carcass Crawler.

Brad · February 02, 2025, 08:25:10 PM

OSE is literally just B/X which is 40+ years old. It's the superior game, however.

grimshwiz · February 02, 2025, 10:27:28 PM

Give me OSE (or Moldvay/Cook) with Shadowdark casting and that is my ideal system to run a D&D style game in.

Crusader X · February 02, 2025, 11:16:42 PM

Both are good games. I started with D&D B/X years ago, so I like OSE. But I prefer Shadowdark's casting. And the Shadowdark Thief is better than the B/X Thief, IMO.

I also play Shadowdark, but I dislike its XP system. The B/X system where 1 GP = 1 XP is much easier to understand.

Anyway, one of the reasons why OSE has seemingly dropped a bit in popularity may be because the OSE team has been focused on getting the Dolmenwood Kickstarter finished. OSE seems to have taken a back seat to that. But Necrotic Gnome does have new OSE stuff coming out in 2025. They made a blog post about it here:

https://necroticgnome.com/blogs/news/looking-ahead-to-2025

finarvyn · February 03, 2025, 08:52:24 AM

Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:25:10 PMOSE is literally just B/X which is 40+ years old. It's the superior game, however.

I agree, except that OSE is a lot more sterile in its presentation. Older TSR games were written with style and were fun to read. OSR has all of the rules, is well organized, and just reads like a stale product. OSE is probably better, but Shadowdark is more fun to read.

weirdguy564 · February 03, 2025, 09:02:23 AM

I would say that both games are B/X based.

Shadowdark has three features that I prefer.

1. Non-Vancian magic. It's roll-to-cast instead of spell slots.

2. Weapon and armor traits. However, there still isn't a reason to want a short sword over a longsword, so this could have been better.

3. Random Advancement tables when you level up. Two warriors shouldn't be the same.

I'll add one more bit. I still prefer indie games over D&D and the D&D clones. If asked, I'll prefer Pocket Fantasy, Dungeons & Delvers dice pool, or True-D6 over any OSR game.

But, if the rules has to be a choice between OSE and Shadowdark, it's Shadowdark.

Spobo · February 03, 2025, 12:12:21 PM

If I were to run an OSR game it would either be Knave 2e, Dungeon Crawl Classics, or my own version of OSE changed in ways that make it similar to the direction Shadowdark went (like 5e advantage/disadvantage.)

Acres Wild · February 03, 2025, 01:16:00 PM

I prefer OSE with a few house rules. The keeping track of torches thing is boring for me. Not a fan of heavy inventory style games and OSE is easy to teach, run and play.

GhostNinja · February 03, 2025, 02:07:34 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 01, 2025, 07:38:22 PMOld School Essentials used to be mentioned around this forum quite a lot. It almost seemed to be the front runner for Best OSR Game.

Now, it seems like Shadowdark is getting a lot of the praise.

I know that I prefer Shadowdark over OSE.

Am I alone in this?

I play and run Old School Essentials and I love it. I talk about it whenever I can and suggest it to everyone I can. It's so easy to run and play and feels like the old school D&D I played in my younger years.

GhostNinja · February 03, 2025, 02:09:27 PM

Quote from: Brad on February 02, 2025, 08:25:10 PMOSE is literally just B/X which is 40+ years old. It's the superior game, however.

This is true, but the desinger also cleaned it up, clarified the rules and fixed the mistakes. I looked at a ton of different OSR games and OSE is the only one that really does what I want it to do.

Brad · February 03, 2025, 02:59:27 PM

Quote from: finarvyn on February 03, 2025, 08:52:24 AMI agree, except that OSE is a lot more sterile in its presentation. Older TSR games were written with style and were fun to read. OSR has all of the rules, is well organized, and just reads like a stale product. OSE is probably better, but Shadowdark is more fun to read.

Well that is my biggest gripe with OSE, honestly. It lacks any sort of flavor at all. B/X Essentials was originally just a rules reference for B/X that morphed into its own product (OSE), and I'm thinking he should have just left well enough alone and stayed with the reference model. Instead, OSE is padded out with tons and tons of artwork that does not really help evoke the flavor inherent in the original B/X text.

So it's a good reference for B/X with way too much art. I backed all the Kickstarters and got my t-shirt, but I still find myself thumbing through Moldvay Basic every so often, OSE sits on the shelf.

blackstone · February 03, 2025, 03:10:35 PM

I was always under the impression that Shadowdark is for gamers who play 5e, but want a more Old School feel. It's 5e stripped down.

OSE, which I own but haven't played (yet), is the best of B/X and 1st ed AD&D. You can play race as class, races with separate classes, or combine the two. I'm not a big fan of the spell list. It limited IMO. I'd prefer my spell list to go out to 9th level. I also prefer different weapon damage based upon size of the creature. OSE just has one damage for all. The spell list and weapon damage is more of a personal preference, since I was more into 1st ed AD&D than B/X.