Quote from: Valatar on January 22, 2025, 07:08:44 AMThis is a forum that specifically allows that discussion where others like reddit and rpgnet go out of their way to delete threads and ban people who mention it.

Keep in mind that you're bringing this up to a person who states in his RPG links that RPG.net is...

Quotewww.rpg.net
One of the best collection site, with a large list of reviews, companies, articles, and hosted sites.

This alone should tell you everything.

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 11:13:56 AM

Quote from: Valatar on January 22, 2025, 07:08:44 AMThis is a forum that specifically allows that discussion where others like reddit and rpgnet go out of their way to delete threads and ban people who mention it.

Keep in mind that you're bringing this up to a person who states in his RPG links that RPG.net is...

Quotewww.rpg.net
One of the best collection site, with a large list of reviews, companies, articles, and hosted sites.

This alone should tell you everything.

That list of links is from 2011. I stand by it being one of the best collection sites in 2011. Here's the page:

https://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/links.html

The question is, what are the best sites for collections of reviews and other information now? RPGnet still hosts over a thousand reviews from over decades.

There's now rpggeek. Are there other recommendations you'd have?

Quote from: jhkim on January 23, 2025, 12:30:53 PM

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 11:13:56 AM

Quote from: Valatar on January 22, 2025, 07:08:44 AMThis is a forum that specifically allows that discussion where others like reddit and rpgnet go out of their way to delete threads and ban people who mention it.

Keep in mind that you're bringing this up to a person who states in his RPG links that RPG.net is...

Quotewww.rpg.net
One of the best collection site, with a large list of reviews, companies, articles, and hosted sites.

This alone should tell you everything.

That list of links is from 2011. I stand by it being one of the best collection sites in 2011. Here's the page:

https://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/links.html

The question is, what are the best sites for collections of reviews and other information now? RPGnet still hosts over a thousand reviews from over decades.

There's now rpggeek. Are there other recommendations you'd have?

OH! For 2011! You should have said so. Man, my bad...

FFS, can you push the goalposts any farther?

BUT you conveniently left out their FORUMS. rpg.net's forums are the most left-leaning and draconian-enforced forums out there. You know, I know it, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT...Right along with their stupid DEI flag.

Which is why some people came here, because at least here, people on all sides of the political spectrum can have debate, discourse, and conversation.

rpg.net? You've got to be fucking kidding me.

The fact rpg.net was willing to keep lots of good content from posters they later banned for being "problematic" is the same bullshit as Conan RPGs that badmouth REH for being racist. At one point it was a good place to discuss RPGs and read reviews, but now it's worthless for anything published in the past 10 years.

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 03:06:35 PMOH! For 2011! You should have said so. Man, my bad...

FFS, can you push the goalposts any farther?

How the fuck is that goalpost shifting? You cited a page of mine that clearly states on the page that it was last updated in 2011.

The inclusion of that link is even earlier, though. I added the link with those words some time before 2001. The earliest archive I see of my links page is 2001, where you can see the rpgnet link there:

https://web.archive.org/web/20011106163356/http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/links.html

Now, you could say that I didn't go back and remove the link to rpgnet. That's fair. I've been terrible even about pruning dead links, let alone editing them because of their politics.

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 03:06:35 PMBUT you conveniently left out their FORUMS. rpg.net's forums are the most left-leaning and draconian-enforced forums out there. You know, I know it, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT...Right along with their stupid DEI flag.

I suspect I didn't mention their forums because their forums didn't even exist back in 2001.

Quote from: jhkim on January 23, 2025, 04:16:58 PM

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 03:06:35 PMOH! For 2011! You should have said so. Man, my bad...

FFS, can you push the goalposts any farther?

How the fuck is that goalpost shifting? You cited a page of mine that clearly states on the page that it was last updated in 2011.

The inclusion of that link is even earlier, though. I added the link with those words some time before 2001. The earliest archive I see of my links page is 2001, where you can see the rpgnet link there:

https://web.archive.org/web/20011106163356/http://www.darkshire.org/~jhkim/rpg/links.html

Now, you could say that I didn't go back and remove the link to rpgnet. That's fair. I've been terrible even about pruning dead links, let alone editing them because of their politics.

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 03:06:35 PMBUT you conveniently left out their FORUMS. rpg.net's forums are the most left-leaning and draconian-enforced forums out there. You know, I know it, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT...Right along with their stupid DEI flag.

I suspect I didn't mention their forums because their forums didn't even exist back in 2001.

...and yet you still had the link to rpg.net in your links section. Not my fault you can't keep up with the times to not even bother to check if even the links work, let alone if their content changed.

Their forums not existing in 2001 is your excuse. Really? So what? They've been around for at least ten years.

You've been here long enough to have engaged with people who have been booted from their forums. Years, in fact. Myself included.

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 07:12:25 PM...and yet you still had the link to rpg.net in your links section. Not my fault you can't keep up with the times to not even bother to check if even the links work, let alone if their content changed.

Their forums not existing in 2001 is your excuse. Really? So what? They've been around for at least ten years.

You've been here long enough to have engaged with people who have been booted from their forums. Years, in fact. Myself included.

So because you were booted from the forums there, I'm supposed to go through and edit all of my old content to remove any mention of rpg.net from any posts or pages of mine.

The fact that I didn't do so proves that I'm the enemy and that's all that anyone needs to know about me.

Does that sum it up?

Quote from: jhkim on January 23, 2025, 07:19:07 PM

Quote from: blackstone on January 23, 2025, 07:12:25 PM...and yet you still had the link to rpg.net in your links section. Not my fault you can't keep up with the times to not even bother to check if even the links work, let alone if their content changed.

Their forums not existing in 2001 is your excuse. Really? So what? They've been around for at least ten years.

You've been here long enough to have engaged with people who have been booted from their forums. Years, in fact. Myself included.

So because you were booted from the forums there, I'm supposed to go through and edit all of my old content to remove any mention of rpg.net from any posts or pages of mine.

The fact that I didn't do so proves that I'm the enemy and that's all that anyone needs to know about me.

Does that sum it up?

(Sigh) No, that's not the point. Not just me specifically. Many people here have been booted from rpg.net because we didn't follow their Orwellian groupthink community guidelines for their forums.

You've been here long enough to know the forums here was designed to be an open forum, regardless of political affiliation. The only people I've seen where the ban hammer came down are obvious trolls or people crossing over content from one forum to another that doesn't fit the forum's content.

My point in bringing up rpg.net was in regard to their forums, and I would further argue that their insane community guidelines DO apply to their reviews and other content. To think otherwise is foolish. They're all part of the same website. 

Be honest. Do you REALLY believe a review of a product by someone that was right-leaning, and it showed in their review, be allowed to have their review posted there?

No, of course it wouldn't. They would have it removed immediately, call into question the character of that person by screaming "Nazi!" at the top of their lungs (figuratively speaking), and at best give that reviewer a good talking to. At worst, they'd be banned form ever posting reviews there.

Is that a website you want to be affiliated with?

For me, absolutely not. I'd rather go to a website where I'm allowed to speak my mind, read other people's opinions and views, and if need be, debate said views in true discourse.

True freedom of speech. Something I hold in the highest regard. In fact, so much so, that you yourself can say what you want and I will defend your right to say it, even if we disagree.

Can you say the same thing about rpg.net?

Quote from: blackstone on January 24, 2025, 08:16:40 AMBe honest. Do you REALLY believe a review of a product by someone that was right-leaning, and it showed in their review, be allowed to have their review posted there?

I think the bolded part is the problem (regardless of left/right bias). If you can't review a RPG product without putting obvious politics into your review, then you're doing it wrong.

Quote from: HappyDaze on January 24, 2025, 11:05:09 AM

Quote from: blackstone on January 24, 2025, 08:16:40 AMBe honest. Do you REALLY believe a review of a product by someone that was right-leaning, and it showed in their review, be allowed to have their review posted there?

I think the bolded part is the problem (regardless of left/right bias). If you can't review a RPG product without putting obvious politics into your review, then you're doing it wrong.

I agree, but we're talking about rpg.net here. I don't trust them about as much as I can toss them.

Quote from: blackstone on January 24, 2025, 08:16:40 AMBe honest. Do you REALLY believe a review of a product by someone that was right-leaning, and it showed in their review, be allowed to have their review posted there?

No, of course it wouldn't. They would have it removed immediately, call into question the character of that person by screaming "Nazi!" at the top of their lungs (figuratively speaking), and at best give that reviewer a good talking to. At worst, they'd be banned form ever posting reviews there.

Is that a website you want to be affiliated with?

For me, absolutely not. I'd rather go to a website where I'm allowed to speak my mind, read other people's opinions and views, and if need be, debate said views in true discourse.

True freedom of speech. Something I hold in the highest regard. In fact, so much so, that you yourself can say what you want and I will defend your right to say it, even if we disagree.

To be clear, I do prefer the light moderation here on theRPGsite forums compared to the more heavy-handed moderation RPGnet forums (and many other forums I've tried). I like a good argument, and for people to be able to speak their minds.

---

However, it is bizarrely backwards that you're demanding that I delete mentions of rpg.net from all my old material since the 1990s in the name of free speech.

I do not vet my links to make sure that the people linked to have values matching my own. For example, I had Kenneth Molyneaux's "Racial Holy War" listed in my Free RPGs list, and I remember someone emailing me that I shouldn't list it because of its racism.

I have no problem linking to rpg.net, because they do in fact have a ton of material like RPG reviews there which are useful to gamers. They even host reviews of RPGPundit's games, for example. That I link to them doesn't mean that I am "associated with" them in anything but the most trivial sense.

I would consider it a positive value for free speech to talk to and thus associate with people of differing values to one's own. That is what enables broader understanding and the free marketplace of ideas.

Quote from: jhkim on January 23, 2025, 04:16:58 PMI suspect I didn't mention their forums because their forums didn't even exist back in 2001.

They were around, I was on the prior incarnation for a bit before they did the overhaul in early 2002. Accounts didn't transition so you had to sign up for new ones.

Quote from: Thornhammer on January 26, 2025, 09:04:31 AM

Quote from: jhkim on January 23, 2025, 04:16:58 PMI suspect I didn't mention their forums because their forums didn't even exist back in 2001.

They were around, I was on the prior incarnation for a bit before they did the overhaul in early 2002. Accounts didn't transition so you had to sign up for new ones.

Thanks for the info - my memory is hazy. I know I was never very active on rpg.net, but I probably had a forum account earlier. I knew it mostly as a place for reviews back then, and I submitted a couple of reviews in the early 2000s.

I'm also sure that the forums were very different in 2001 than in the past ten years.

I was on there back in the threaded view software days.  So long ago.  I often think the upgrade was the beginning of the decline.  Because that lead to Tangency and while, for the first couple years it was just some guy posting whenever he got a free Coke, it eventually had everything ruled as off topic shunted over to it.  For a number of years there wasn't even a media forum, it was all just in Tangency.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 26, 2025, 09:24:38 PMI was on there back in the threaded view software days.  So long ago.  I often think the upgrade was the beginning of the decline.  Because that lead to Tangency and while, for the first couple years it was just some guy posting whenever he got a free Coke, it eventually had everything ruled as off topic shunted over to it.  For a number of years there wasn't even a media forum, it was all just in Tangency.

I was there too.  Tangency was the beginning of the end.  We were all assured that the off-topic political stuff would be confined to tangency but I and many others knew that was bullshit.  It quickly spread to the other forums like a metastasizing cancer.  Once Tangency was allowed, it inevitably morphed from an RPG forum to an RPG forum with a political section to a political forum where RPGs are sometimes discussed too.  All of the forum's current problems follow from this bad decision.  Give these people an inch and they will take the whole damn forum.