Quote from: Brad on January 23, 2025, 11:46:02 AMMy mom watched the 700 Club and bought into D&D being pure evil. She made my brother and I get rid of our Mentzer stuff, but really we just hid it. Oddly, she had zero issues with any other RPG, including Palladium FRP, TMNT, Rolemaster, etc., so I bought a lot of those instead and played D&D anyway. It was literally only D&D which was problematic, perplexingly so.

Even to this fucking day she thinks D&D is magically evil, when the metric ton of other RPGs I have are fine, even shit like Nephilim and Aquelarre, which could arguably be Satanic. I mean, The Arcanum has a pentagram on the front, that's okay, but D&D? EEEEEEVIL!

If the Satanic Panic was a psyop, it was to tank TSR and allow other publishers to thrive.

The 700 club was pretty intensely on the anti-D&D train even well after the Satanic Panic ended. One of my favorite PSAs they used to run: https://youtu.be/kDJ1UOpxjt4?si=-21YOkBsnR3Ahtaw

Trinity Broadcast Network.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on January 23, 2025, 06:51:45 PMThe 700 club was pretty intensely on the anti-D&D train even well after the Satanic Panic ended. One of my favorite PSAs they used to run: https://youtu.be/kDJ1UOpxjt4?si=-21YOkBsnR3Ahtaw

That game looks super badass compared to a bunch of nerds playing D&D. Was this supposed to deter anyone?

Weird.  I started playing in 1980 and am a lifelong member of a very conservative Christian church and heard nothing of it til I was in college in the early 90's.  I assumed it was just a few random wacko.  It probably helped that my first game was just my immediate family with my mom as DM.  (I was 10)

Quote from: PencilBoy99 on January 23, 2025, 02:36:35 PMThe James Dallas Egbert incident was a hoax. The guy was just mentally ill and fled to Louisiana.

I can thank Egbert for indirectly bringing me into the rpg hobby. He attended the same high school as I did, but graduated a year earlier, so I never met him in person. His "disappearance" was a big thing in the local media (Dayton, Ohio). My friends and I had never heard of roleplaying games until then, but the reports about D&D greatly intrigued us. Luckily, some business-savvy shopowners began to stock rpgs and so we all started to play. However, the first rpg we played wasn't even D&D, but High Fantasy. We switched to AD&D a few months later, when the first edition DMG was released.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fantasy_(role-playing_game)
Neither I or any of my friends were from evangelical families, so the Satanic Panic wasn't an issue and we only knew about it from the media.

Quote from: Exploderwizard on January 23, 2025, 01:33:00 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 22, 2025, 10:35:32 PMFor anyone who is curious about the Satanic Panic at its ground zero, I grew up in Richmond, VA and was playing RPGs as a teenager there at the height of the Panic (in the mid to late 80's).  That's Patricia Pulling's stomping grounds and the founding location of B.A.D.D.  We saw the people who wanted to shut us all down in the media occasionally, but we mostly just laughed at them.  So, yeah, it happened, but it was far more media event than real event.  Didn't directly affect me (my life and family situation was so screwed up that whatever games I was playing was the least of my parent's worries), but I had several friends that it did affect in minor ways, mostly just by their parents saying they couldn't play the game. 

But as for some massive movement that scarred swathes of children, that  certainly wasn't the case in the epicenter of the whole controversy.  We freely played home games and shopped at the local magic shop/game store One Eyed Jacques (which is where I bought all my games back then).  I went to a Southern Baptist church, rolled up characters in the back of my English class, and openly carried my D&D books everywhere in Richmond.  The most I ever got was questions from a curious person or two who had vaguely heard there was some controversy about the game and wanted to know what it was.  Maybe some crazed pogrom was happening somewhere at the time (I know Janet Reno, et al., were trumping up charges against day care workers at the time), but at ground zero, the home of the notorious Pulling herself, it was far more of a media-driven sensationalist story than anything that affected our gaming or lives.

I was just up the road from you in Fredericksburg. My mom heard about all the fuss and asked me about it. I invited her to play so that she could see for herself what we were doing. She rolled up a BX elf and played a session with us. After that she ignored all BS and we played on.

I still go by One Eyed Jacques once in a while whenever we go to Carytown.

Glad to hear that One Eyed Jacques still exists. I was there numerous times when my older brother lived in Richmond in the 1980s. Bizarrely, I still dream of that place sometimes. Another place we went to was a wargame store in Cloverleaf Mall, which, like so many other malls, was later demolished.

Quote from: Mishihari on January 24, 2025, 12:37:10 AMWeird.  I started playing in 1980 and am a lifelong member of a very conservative Christian church and heard nothing of it til I was in college in the early 90's.  I assumed it was just a few random wacko.  It probably helped that my first game was just my immediate family with my mom as DM.  (I was 10)

This definitely seemed to not be a ubiquitous thing. Where it hit it could hit pretty hard though. The Satanic Panic didn't affect every region in the same way and sometimes you could have differences church to church. On the west coast I saw a lot of it, on the east coast no one seemed to care. While living out west I was in an area with a lot of conservative churches, and though my parents weren't themselves conservative, the church we went to and the people in our community tended to be. I think it is a mistake to think of it as a strictly conservative religious response because a lot of liberal christians and liberal people in general were also caught up in the Satanic Panic. Like I said, my parents were on the liberal side of things but equally concerned about satanic content in RPGs and music. And I saw plenty of parents who were not religious and not conservative but still concerned about RPGs because the Satanic Panic was promoting a narrative that D&D wasn't just satanic but distorted peoples ability to discern reality from fantasy, led to suicide and violent larping. I definitely saw a lot of conservative Christians involved too. But it wasn't the sole domain of the religious right and the religious right was so much more mainstream back then anyway (so you often had liberal people who agreed with a lot that the religious right had to say). I think part of it was D&D was this mysterious new activity gaining mainstream attention and it was easy to project a lot of fears that parents had about their children onto the game.

Quote from: Brad on January 23, 2025, 10:20:04 PM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on January 23, 2025, 06:51:45 PMThe 700 club was pretty intensely on the anti-D&D train even well after the Satanic Panic ended. One of my favorite PSAs they used to run: https://youtu.be/kDJ1UOpxjt4?si=-21YOkBsnR3Ahtaw

That game looks super badass compared to a bunch of nerds playing D&D. Was this supposed to deter anyone?

Lol, well I think the implication is they were killing each other when their character died, so I'd pass, but I can't deny they did make it look cool lol.

I am pretty sure that is the TV spot that inspired this: https://youtu.be/-leYc4oC83E?si=xX7rsyYSDniU4YgN

Quote from: Mishihari on January 24, 2025, 12:37:10 AMWeird.  I started playing in 1980 and am a lifelong member of a very conservative Christian church and heard nothing of it til I was in college in the early 90's.  I assumed it was just a few random wacko.  It probably helped that my first game was just my immediate family with my mom as DM.  (I was 10)

Because it basically was. But they had media backing. (I had the same experience as you...)

No mainstream religious denominations leadership made any Official anti-D&D statement. Not the Catholic Church, LDS/Mormons, Baptists, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans. Not one of them.

The actual drivers of the 'D&D is the devil' portion of the satanic panic (SP), were a  tiny handful of people: A karen, and a few theological grifters not tied to any particular christian denomination.

For some reason, the mainstream media of the time saw fit to give them a national soapbox, for years.

While people like Michael A. Stackpole, and Tracy Hickman were sidelined...

Yes, 100%, some legit bad stuff happened to some kids in their teen years that were not cool. Not even a little bit. It sucked.

But the hard truth is that it happened because their parents, their friends parents, and their local pastor, were fucking stupid.

They were idiots that fell for a media generated moral panic, hook, line, and sinker.

Compared to the number of people that played back then, the number that had bad experiences is a tiny minority.

But, because it happened in their formative years, those that had bad experiences are Very vocal about it. Making their bad experiences "because Christianity" seem far more widespread than they actually were...

Mission accomplished.

Overall good video, I agree with it's primary thesis; that the satanic panic was in fact not a pysop, though to be sure certain elements of grifting were involved in that whole affair.

My Grandparents watched the 700 Club and were convinced that D&D had subliminal demonic elements in it, which lead to a bit of conflict between them and my parents.

That said the one point I find hard to accept is that the moralist movement of the Satanic Panic had some sort oracular insight on the future decay of our society. It's really quite the opposite, I'd go as far as to say they are the cause of it.

In the same way that Odin in the Prose Edda "predicted" Ragnarok, by trying to prevent the future he feared he inadvertently created it.

The Satanic Panic "creating" MAGA is only true in a round about sense, as the Satanic Panic created the leftists of the late 90s and early 2000s, which spawned the politics of those periods, which then had it's retort in MAGA. Perhaps the Right will learn it's lesson and not overstep as it did last time and create it's future enemies, but that is asking a lot.

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 22, 2025, 06:27:18 PMThe secret history of the satanic panic! Also, how it changed American Christianity forever, and might be responsible for MAGA.

This was an excellent podcast.

As a GenXer who was into heavy metal and D&D, there's no doubt in my mind that the Satanic Panic was largely a sincere reflection of the religious right's fears. I had to hide my D&D books from my misguided but very earnest religious, midwestern mother. (Weirdly, she was more alarmed by D&D and metal than the cache of pornography she found.) It's very odd that someone would think it was a psyop. The infamous Chick tract on D&D is a fair indication that there was genuine, if ludicrous, concern about the game, among many other things.

There were definitely associations with "Satanic Cult" activity in 1980-81. I started the first D&D club at my high school. One day, we had a visit from two police from a nearby town that wanted to talk with us and observe a game because of some crimes in the nearby town that had the appearance of cult activity.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on January 24, 2025, 07:50:23 PMOverall good video, I agree with it's primary thesis; that the satanic panic was in fact not a pysop, though to be sure certain elements of grifting were involved in that whole affair.

My Grandparents watched the 700 Club and were convinced that D&D had subliminal demonic elements in it, which lead to a bit of conflict between them and my parents.

That said the one point I find hard to accept is that the moralist movement of the Satanic Panic had some sort oracular insight on the future decay of our society. It's really quite the opposite, I'd go as far as to say they are the cause of it.

In the same way that Odin in the Prose Edda "predicted" Ragnarok, by trying to prevent the future he feared he inadvertently created it.

The Satanic Panic "creating" MAGA is only true in a round about sense, as the Satanic Panic created the leftists of the late 90s and early 2000s, which spawned the politics of those periods, which then had it's retort in MAGA. Perhaps the Right will learn it's lesson and not overstep as it did last time and create it's future enemies, but that is asking a lot.

Well, as I've said, back in the mid-90s when the Religious right were saying that as people abandoned god society would be turned into a new Sodom & Gomorrah, I thought they were full of shit. I rejected the idea that Christianity would eventually be persecuted by a secular regime and there would be satanic altars in government buildings. I certainly didn't believe that the Gay Rights movement would eventually lead to the performance of sexual nudity, bondage, and fetishes in the open on the street and in front of children. Or that the gays/lesbians would try to "seduce" children into becoming crossdressers and other perversions.

I thought all of that was laughably ridiculous.
IT ALL CAME TRUE.

That's what happens when you take the religious core out of a society. But I didn't understand that at the time. Now I get the logical academic reasons for it, the historical precedent. But the religious people got that inherently, because the Bible is full of those examples, and amazing teachings about human nature.

They were wrong about D&D (and I was right), but they were right about the price of an aggressively secular "progressive" world, and I was completely wrong.

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2025, 12:52:07 PMThey were wrong about D&D (and I was right), but they were right about the price of an aggressively secular "progressive" world, and I was completely wrong.

That's why as much as I think my mom is being stupid about D&D being "satanic", I do not fault her or any of the other Christians who railed against the incoming moral depravity. You can be wrong about something dumb, but being right about something that will destroy society...that's just infinitely more important.

And yes, I'm right there with you. When I was in college the first time around, I thought the whole devolution of the West was utterly retarded. When I started my PhD program, older and wiser, it was on full display and I watched it happen in real time. The campus where I teach now is, oddly enough, somewhat immune to this crap, thankfully, by virtue of nearly every single person in the administration and faculty being either Christian or polite enough not to say anything about it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 25, 2025, 12:52:07 PM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on January 24, 2025, 07:50:23 PMOverall good video, I agree with it's primary thesis; that the satanic panic was in fact not a pysop, though to be sure certain elements of grifting were involved in that whole affair.

My Grandparents watched the 700 Club and were convinced that D&D had subliminal demonic elements in it, which lead to a bit of conflict between them and my parents.

That said the one point I find hard to accept is that the moralist movement of the Satanic Panic had some sort oracular insight on the future decay of our society. It's really quite the opposite, I'd go as far as to say they are the cause of it.

In the same way that Odin in the Prose Edda "predicted" Ragnarok, by trying to prevent the future he feared he inadvertently created it.

The Satanic Panic "creating" MAGA is only true in a round about sense, as the Satanic Panic created the leftists of the late 90s and early 2000s, which spawned the politics of those periods, which then had it's retort in MAGA. Perhaps the Right will learn it's lesson and not overstep as it did last time and create it's future enemies, but that is asking a lot.

Well, as I've said, back in the mid-90s when the Religious right were saying that as people abandoned god society would be turned into a new Sodom & Gomorrah, I thought they were full of shit. I rejected the idea that Christianity would eventually be persecuted by a secular regime and there would be satanic altars in government buildings. I certainly didn't believe that the Gay Rights movement would eventually lead to the performance of sexual nudity, bondage, and fetishes in the open on the street and in front of children. Or that the gays/lesbians would try to "seduce" children into becoming crossdressers and other perversions.

I thought all of that was laughably ridiculous.
IT ALL CAME TRUE.

That's what happens when you take the religious core out of a society. But I didn't understand that at the time. Now I get the logical academic reasons for it, the historical precedent. But the religious people got that inherently, because the Bible is full of those examples, and amazing teachings about human nature.

They were wrong about D&D (and I was right), but they were right about the price of an aggressively secular "progressive" world, and I was completely wrong.

It is not hard to extrapolate what a Godless and degenerate society looks like, history is replete with them rising and falling. and Indeed the religious right was correct as to how things would pan out, what a shame they helped make a generation who equated morality with "No Fun" and thus doomed us to our present timeline.