Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play. I dig the setting, relatively, it's well-thought out and carves a distinct niche for itself despite using the dwarf/elf/man fantasy tropes. It's got a groovy backsetting and Germanic krieg color and grimdark and everything . . . but I just don't know what to do with it as a GM, or how to get into it in an immersive way as a player. It's just . . . begging me the question of why not play Warhammer Fantasy Battles instead. Too much bogus combat dressed up with boring gore descriptions and canned hunts. Bleck.

Dungeons & Dragons strikes me similarly. It's just kitchen sink nonsense with combat rules that don't simulate anything from books, movies, or comics, but only itself, and itself is deadly dull. The magic is gone from D&D for me. If I want something more tailored to my tastes, that modifying D&D would or could accomplish (as Gygax himself encouraged and presumed), then why not just make my own bespoke game?

Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on January 20, 2025, 07:17:00 PMIt's just . . . begging me the question of why not play Warhammer Fantasy Battles instead.

The is a huge tonal change from the RPG to the wargame. The RPG is grim & gritty and characters operate well below the superhero levels of WFB. They really should be seen as two parallel settings that have significant overlap but are ultimately going to give you far differnt play experiences. OTOH, the Soulbound game clings pretty tightly to the Age of Sigmar wargame, so here your question is probably more difficult to answer.

Quote from: HappyDaze on January 21, 2025, 10:21:15 AM

Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on January 20, 2025, 07:17:00 PMIt's just . . . begging me the question of why not play Warhammer Fantasy Battles instead.

The is a huge tonal change from the RPG to the wargame. The RPG is grim & gritty and characters operate well below the superhero levels of WFB. They really should be seen as two parallel settings that have significant overlap but are ultimately going to give you far differnt play experiences. OTOH, the Soulbound game clings pretty tightly to the Age of Sigmar wargame, so here your question is probably more difficult to answer.

Possibly true, but I'm not digging the setting enough to split that hair. I just like the imagery and colour. I'm not a big wargamer (I prefer hex-based Avalon Hill-type stuff, in all honesty).

Quote from: LouGarou on January 04, 2025, 07:49:59 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 04, 2025, 06:49:08 AMBut, back to Palladium.  When Kevin retires and Sean Robertson writes a 3rd edition I hope he can clarify and simplify the rules.  Then I might go back.

It is my sincere and earnest hope we see this with TMNT. It's the perfect place to do it because it doesn't affect the Rifts line. A revision of the core system for a limited release of a retired property would be the perfect soft launch.

This is interesting to hear because even the original TMNT game was essentially Erick Wujcik taming down Megaversal for an introductory audience. The upcoming release this year is supposed to remain compatible with all the older TMNT books, so I wouldn't hold my breath any time soon for another revised release.

Quote from: jeff37923 on January 12, 2025, 09:41:27 PM

Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2025, 08:20:09 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMI'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).

Cute. But you are still wrong.

Try again please. But then maybe you are too busy being a jackass to come up with anything better.

Human sized unicellular organisms that are sentient, human sized bugs that still have book lungs and are intelligent, personal force fields that bend light but no gravity control, starships that go FTL when they reach 0.01% lightspeed because space is weird, starship shields that bend light but no gravity control, worlds that are automagically habitable. I could go on, but we've had this conversation before.

There's nothing wrong with being science fantasy. Some of my favorite games are science fantasy.
[/quo

You know. I explained this before and you have oh so conveniently forgotten it.
Obvious you havent even looked at the game.
But lets do this again because you obviously love being wrong.

Dralasites are not unicellular creatures. Says right in the book they are multicellular.
Vrusk have an internal skeleton. Also as stated in the book. They do not have book lungs far as I recall but they do breath through the thorax part. Book states they have lungs, not book lungs.
There is no inviso device in Star Frontiers. There is the Holo projector, but it is very limited and according to the rules only 80% effective. It can be loaded with a cammo projection. But not actual invisibility.
Never says in the game exactly why ships pop into the FTL at exactly 1%. But talking to Cook apparently the idea was it was a quirk of the nebula region the game was set in. Or something else.
As for light bending force fields... uh...where? The ships can have a reflective coating to help counter lasers.
Next stupid... Automatically habitable? Except... not. Mutiny on the Elanor Moraes is all about the PCs exploring a planet with an atmosphere they cant safely breath. Same for at least one other module.

I could go on. But we've had this idiot discussion before.

But sure Star Frontiers blob people baaaad! Traveler magic space kobols goooood!

Keep struggling.

Quote from: Omega on January 22, 2025, 08:01:30 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on January 12, 2025, 09:41:27 PM

Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2025, 08:20:09 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on January 07, 2025, 08:10:03 PMI'm a fan and will admit to being an asshole at times. Truth be told, I've picked on Omega for his claim that Star Frontiers is harder science fiction than Traveller (it ain't).

Cute. But you are still wrong.

Try again please. But then maybe you are too busy being a jackass to come up with anything better.

Human sized unicellular organisms that are sentient, human sized bugs that still have book lungs and are intelligent, personal force fields that bend light but no gravity control, starships that go FTL when they reach 0.01% lightspeed because space is weird, starship shields that bend light but no gravity control, worlds that are automagically habitable. I could go on, but we've had this conversation before.

There's nothing wrong with being science fantasy. Some of my favorite games are science fantasy.
[/quo

You know. I explained this before and you have oh so conveniently forgotten it.
Obvious you havent even looked at the game.
But lets do this again because you obviously love being wrong.

Dralasites are not unicellular creatures. Says right in the book they are multicellular.
Vrusk have an internal skeleton. Also as stated in the book. They do not have book lungs far as I recall but they do breath through the thorax part. Book states they have lungs, not book lungs.
There is no inviso device in Star Frontiers. There is the Holo projector, but it is very limited and according to the rules only 80% effective. It can be loaded with a cammo projection. But not actual invisibility.
Never says in the game exactly why ships pop into the FTL at exactly 1%. But talking to Cook apparently the idea was it was a quirk of the nebula region the game was set in. Or something else.
As for light bending force fields... uh...where? The ships can have a reflective coating to help counter lasers.
Next stupid... Automatically habitable? Except... not. Mutiny on the Elanor Moraes is all about the PCs exploring a planet with an atmosphere they cant safely breath. Same for at least one other module.

I could go on. But we've had this idiot discussion before.

But sure Star Frontiers blob people baaaad! Traveler magic space kobols goooood!

Keep struggling.

I'm not the one who can't refute the points I brought up about your favorite science fantasy game.

Quote from: D-ko on January 21, 2025, 02:57:56 PM

Quote from: LouGarou on January 04, 2025, 07:49:59 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 04, 2025, 06:49:08 AMBut, back to Palladium.  When Kevin retires and Sean Robertson writes a 3rd edition I hope he can clarify and simplify the rules.  Then I might go back.

It is my sincere and earnest hope we see this with TMNT. It's the perfect place to do it because it doesn't affect the Rifts line. A revision of the core system for a limited release of a retired property would be the perfect soft launch.

This is interesting to hear because even the original TMNT game was essentially Erick Wujcik taming down Megaversal for an introductory audience.

I'm not sure that TMNT&OS is much tamer than the existing Palladium titles to that date. The scope is narrower but the core systems are the same. I guess it's a matter of what you consider taming.

QuoteThe upcoming release this year is supposed to remain compatible with all the older TMNT books, so I wouldn't hold my breath any time soon for another revised release.

Yeah, I know that's a total pipedream on my part. I honestly don't think we'll ever see a proper revision of the Palladium house system. It's been stealth revised as far as it's going to go with Rifter rules updates, rules changes in new game lines, and that big Rifts universal guide. I expect when Siembieda can't carry on anymore his successor will license the properties to other systems like they've already done with Savage Rifts. 

Quote from: LouGarou on January 22, 2025, 11:53:49 PMI'm not sure that TMNT&OS is much tamer than the existing Palladium titles to that date. The scope is narrower but the core systems are the same. I guess it's a matter of what you consider taming.

I never got past character creation in the system (we were playing MDC games like Rifts/Robotech instead at the time) but I read through the books I had (the core book and transdimensional) and I wouldn't have considered the BIO-E system to be streamlined by any metric.  I didn't mind it at the time as I was a fan of Palladium's copypasta creation systems (more specifically the one they used for various organizations like in HU) but it never felt streamlined and was just as messy and stream of consciousness as pretty much everything else they put out.

I forgot Shadowrun!

In the early days I was (and largely remain) a purist about Cyberpunk. I had CP2020 - wtf do I need elves and magic in my cyberpunk for? Then I played in a very short-lived campaign... that system... ugh. It only made my general dislike for Shadowrun as a concept more concrete.

These days? I'm more into it, the concept. But that system, in all its editions, just sucks massive ass to me.

I will NEVER run or play Apocalypse World and neither should you