Quote from: Omega on December 27, 2024, 12:56:34 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 22, 2024, 11:15:04 PMHint: tracing is not a sin and a shame. You're not a pro artist; you just need to convey your ideas out of your head into a shape recognizable by others. Go get a light box and trace out *enough* of the AI reference and then finish up the piece with your touch.

Jesus Christ this term needs to die in Hell!

Using references is NOT "tracing" you absolute fucking morons!

Love you, Omega. But I am actually talking about tracing when I mention using a light box. Light boxes are used for putting enough light for tracing an underneath image. Yes, it is a reference, but the method is not using a proportional divider, grid method, or eyeballing and working on one's perspective skills. It is a direct 1:1 tracing of the image onto another surface.

As long as it is not a 100% copy (including the polyploidy digits) it should be fine for amateur-cum-professional art. Then filling it in by hand should be enough to add human feeling, like a coloring book.

Unless you are talking about something else, I'm at a loss like when I'm listening to comic book fans. Is this an issue of tracing used as an epithet among such comic fans like Kevin Smith? Is this jargon friction leading to crossed wires?

QuoteI guess conservative artists are fucked then. Why pay them when you can ask Google to generate an image for free?

Conservative artists are painting actual paintings, make actual sculptures, project beautiful churches and homes.
AI does not strike against them, but against TUMBLR webartists, deviantart furry webcomicers... generally against group that is 97% anti-conservative, perverted and woke. GOOD RIDDANCE.

AI is good to replace graphic of goblin in RPG adventure not actual paintings and other high conservative arts.

QuoteHonestly? AI is a bloated energy, water, and raw materials hog consuming far more than it will ever produce in value.

Indeed. Unfortunately it wastes more energy and water, than humanity earns on starved tumblr yiffers

QuoteAI is presently only cheap for the end user because of the costs that are being covered by subsidies and tax deferments. As soon as you have to fully cover the costs of the energy, water use, infrastructure costs, financing of the data centers, paychecks of the support teams, and deprecation of the hardware it's going to not be nearly as cost effective as the public is being led to believe.

That's true alas I think they hope they will manage to make this tech way more energy sufficient. Plenty technologies started as fuel devourers before better methods are developed.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 10:21:34 AMYou don't care about leftist artists losing their jobs, so crying "what about conservative artists?" seems more convincing. Didn't conservatives make a big stink about coal miners being fired and told "learn to code"? Where's your worker solidarity now?

Wow, came home from holiday to read buzzword vomit and someone deflecting with their own personal feelings. Why is it specifically that *I* don't care about lost jobs, liberal or conservative? Yes, that remark was stupid, but *I* didn't say that. To be frank, we as a country should have moved on from Coal long ago, but our government is too stupid to continue using Nuclear Power without cheaping out on maintenance. Art has always been seen as lesser than other Subjects in the business perspective. Big companies will fuck over anyone regardless of political view, in order to rake in more profits for the big wigs.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 10:21:34 AMAutomating creativity is terrible for humanity, but conservatives seem to be cheering it to "own the libs!" and "so pretty!" You vote to remove regulations on corpos, then cry foul when they hoard wealth and use AI to replace the human workforce.

You realize that conservative politicians are also corpo bootlickers? Don't you know that most corporations lean conservative and pay those dumb fucks on the hill to make and back conservative policies that will make them more money? Corpos will gladly kick both of us to the curb if AI could be developed enough to replace us to hoard cold hard cash for themselves (which btw wasn't even the main point I was making in my post).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 10:21:34 AMIt's almost like political worldviews aren't based on any consistent value system, but based purely on shallow tribalistic faddish bullshit.

Oh wow, something we can agree on. I only wrote that throw-away line in the end because I observed in more than one thread, this line of taking a side on things that fucks over everyone regardless of political view. Companies don't care if they take a job away from a fatass liberal idiot in Seattle or a hard-working conservative hick in Kansas.

Quote from: MoFoCThat on January 04, 2025, 03:44:08 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 10:21:34 AMYou don't care about leftist artists losing their jobs, so crying "what about conservative artists?" seems more convincing. Didn't conservatives make a big stink about coal miners being fired and told "learn to code"? Where's your worker solidarity now?

Wow, came home from holiday to read buzzword vomit and someone deflecting with their own personal feelings. Why is it specifically that *I* don't care about lost jobs, liberal or conservative? Yes, that remark was stupid, but *I* didn't say that. To be frank, we as a country should have moved on from Coal long ago, but our government is too stupid to continue using Nuclear Power without cheaping out on maintenance. Art has always been seen as lesser than other Subjects in the business perspective. Big companies will fuck over anyone regardless of political view, in order to rake in more profits for the big wigs.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 10:21:34 AMAutomating creativity is terrible for humanity, but conservatives seem to be cheering it to "own the libs!" and "so pretty!" You vote to remove regulations on corpos, then cry foul when they hoard wealth and use AI to replace the human workforce.

You realize that conservative politicians are also corpo bootlickers? Don't you know that most corporations lean conservative and pay those dumb fucks on the hill to make and back conservative policies that will make them more money? Corpos will gladly kick both of us to the curb if AI could be developed enough to replace us to hoard cold hard cash for themselves (which btw wasn't even the main point I was making in my post).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 10:21:34 AMIt's almost like political worldviews aren't based on any consistent value system, but based purely on shallow tribalistic faddish bullshit.

Oh wow, something we can agree on. I only wrote that throw-away line in the end because I observed in more than one thread, this line of taking a side on things that fucks over everyone regardless of political view. Companies don't care if they take a job away from a fatass liberal idiot in Seattle or a hard-working conservative hick in Kansas.

I agree with everything you said.

it's not hatred of AI art but of the theft by publishers of illustrators' work. i don't think that condemns your game if it has qualities. But yes, there is the risk of losing buyers. I'm the first.

I'm fine with people using it for their home games, but I wouldn't like to see it in a published product. That's a thing I quite like about TTRPGs in general is - in the playing of the game itself and outside of publishing anything - there's this generally accepted attitude of just stealing and adapting whatever works for your game, and it doesn't really matter cause it's just you and your friends at home. It's like a little island of post-copyright utopia and I enjoy that.

In my experience though it's really to difficult to get AI image generators to produce anything specific, and it requires so much effort tweaking the prompt that it's almost less work to just go look something up or draw it myself.

Just a couple of comments.  How much water is destroyed by AI?  The answer is zero.  It goes back into the water cycle since it is only used for cooling.  It's not contaminated or bound into other products.  The water goes up in the air or down the drain and returns to the system.  It is borrowed and as long as there is not a shortage, it is not an issue in my opinion.  Energy, yeah, that is a huge draw.

As to AI not producing anything specific, that's true if you are a prompt only user.  But, there is something called image to image and it is fairly common and easy to use.  I'll make a sketch in a setting or pose that I want and let the AI use that as a starting point.  [For example, I can't draw people, but I can mock them up in 3d tools and let the AI polish them.]

Here's a good example of image to image giving you more control over AI.  Robert took an old character drawing and had AI re-imagine it.

(Original)
(re-do)
(re-do)
(re-do)
(re-do)
(Original + re-do)

Quote from: zircher on January 06, 2025, 03:53:28 PMHere's a good example of image to image giving you more control over AI.  Robert took an old character drawing and had AI re-imagine it.

Which program did you use?

I use Fooocus and before that A111 with Stable Diffusion.  When I'm babysitting the grandkids, I'll use Nitecafe.studio when online.  They all support image to image and more control options.

oh, Robert says that he used Midjourney retexturing for those images.

I prefer the original drawing. The AI regens might look superficially more realistic, but the original drawing hews closest to the artist's original artistic vision. The AI regens keep getting basic details completely wrong, like the man's clothing or the robot's arm joints.

I would rather have complete control over the output rather than cede artistic vision to save time. AI only promotes sloth and incompetence.

Yeah, the original old character drawing is better. That sad, the additional AI compositions in posing and background is very useful as thumbnails! If you could trace some of those to "de-render" them into marker art that'd be cooler! Too bad the AI just tossed aside the robot for any old algorithmic hash, the old guy's clothes change-up is more forgiveable.

I'd rather have nothing but middle schooler margin doodles. Anything that was actually made by a human. I don't care if it's not a reasoned position. I won't budge.

I hate companies who say they hate AI art and then sneak it in anyway. Honestly I don't mind either way, but it will affect the overall value of the product to me if the art bears the classic signs of AI. More than anything, just put a damn disclaimer at the beginning of the book and your honesty is more appreciated than that of even some so-called professional companies. AI is like drum machines and autotune-- perfectly fine to do a sketch of something with but more likely to be criticized as a final product, but there are exceptions where it adds to the charm. The Ghostbusters theme was supposed to have real drums and ideally shouldn't have stolen the bass line from Huey Lewis, but it turned out fine, the drums maintaining a certain '80s charm and Huey got his lawsuit money.