Quote from: HappyDaze on December 26, 2024, 03:11:23 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 02:25:03 PMthe werewolves are all psychotic ecoterrorists who practice bestiality, incest and date rape,

You have a point with the ecoterrorism/ecoctivism, but the rest is total bullshit, at least in the newest (5e) version.

To be fair, I have yet to actually meet anyone who actually plays the 5th editions (the fact they just came out and said there's never going to be a Mage 5th edition was actually a relief to those fans) and nearly every former Vampire and Werewolf player I know considers V5/W5 to be complete garbage tier (and its mechanics are basically a downgrade in every possible way... including badly repurposed NWoD elements; ex. mandatory mortal touchstones for vamps) and so they refuse to accept them as editions.

5e of WoD is basically the 4E of D&D.

You are free to disagree (I mean, I liked 4E of D&D better than pretty much every edition of D&D, but I acknowledge I am outlier), but using 5e to present an argument is going to be largely discounted as on the tier of bad fanfiction for authenticity.

I did not like WoD before and nothing 5e does changes my feelings. I'm just waiting for Paradox to finally axe the IP once and for all, because I am well and truly sick of it poisoning the well.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 26, 2024, 03:29:40 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 26, 2024, 03:11:23 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 02:25:03 PMthe werewolves are all psychotic ecoterrorists who practice bestiality, incest and date rape,

You have a point with the ecoterrorism/ecoctivism, but the rest is total bullshit, at least in the newest (5e) version.

To be fair, I have yet to actually meet anyone who actually plays the 5th editions (the fact they just came out and said there's never going to be a Mage 5th edition was actually a relief to those fans) and nearly every former Vampire and Werewolf player I know considers V5/W5 to be complete garbage tier (and its mechanics are basically a downgrade in every possible way... including badly repurposed NWoD elements; ex. mandatory mortal touchstones for vamps) and so they refuse to accept them as editions.

5e of WoD is basically the 4E of D&D.

You are free to disagree (I mean, I liked 4E of D&D better than pretty much every edition of D&D, but I acknowledge I am outlier), but using 5e to present an argument is going to be largely discounted as on the tier of bad fanfiction for authenticity.

Fair enough. I purchased the 5e Werewolf and Hunter books (skipped Vampire because it just doesn't interest me), and I actually like a lot of what Werewolf does (Hunter less so). I have former WoD players in my group, and although we have not played it yet, most of them are willing to give it a shot.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 03:51:42 PMI did not like WoD before and nothing 5e does changes my feelings. I'm just waiting for Paradox to finally axe the IP once and for all, because I am well and truly sick of it poisoning the well.

Again, you seem to like nothing, so the problem is likely you.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 03:51:42 PMI did not like WoD before and nothing 5e does changes my feelings. I'm just waiting for Paradox to finally axe the IP once and for all, because I am well and truly sick of it poisoning the well.

So were my reviews of the FATE, SWADE and M&M entries that essentially provide all the sorts of options you'd need for an Urban Fantasy game without providing a default setting or limiting themselves to just urban fantasy of any help?

Personally, I'm going to build Hunters of the Damned off the d20Hero SRD (Mutants & Masterminds OGL material) because I really have less interest in reinventing the wheel on mechanics because even if I do find Silhouette's dice mechanics interesting, they're not interesting enough to replace the fact that M&M already has fully fleshed out mechanics for all things modern and near future in its SRD and very clean way of building all the supernatural options I desire; even how to make my concept for a morality-meter affecting the powers of the Damned in a clean way.

I've got a few "house rules" I'd apply because I do find a few of the mechanics to be not 100% what I'd like, but its going to be probably 90% less work than doing everything from scratch.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 26, 2024, 06:27:54 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 03:51:42 PMI did not like WoD before and nothing 5e does changes my feelings. I'm just waiting for Paradox to finally axe the IP once and for all, because I am well and truly sick of it poisoning the well.

So were my reviews of the FATE, SWADE and M&M entries that essentially provide all the sorts of options you'd need for an Urban Fantasy game without providing a default setting or limiting themselves to just urban fantasy of any help?

They should be helpful for that, yes.

I wish you luck in your endeavors. I do appreciate having settings as a way to save time or for a chance of pace. We need lots more settings that aren't WoD.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 26, 2024, 04:18:05 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 03:51:42 PMI did not like WoD before and nothing 5e does changes my feelings. I'm just waiting for Paradox to finally axe the IP once and for all, because I am well and truly sick of it poisoning the well.

Again, you seem to like nothing, so the problem is likely you.

Let's not engage in personal attacks, please. I don't like WoD in particular. There are basically no other urban fantasy settings because it killed them all, including several I liked a lot. How many other urban fantasy ttrpg communities can you name?

WoD fans cyberbullied me and others mercilessly for years for liking CoD back in the 2000s. They sent death threats to the company writers, among other things. To this day they still cannot move on, even tho it has been cancelled for years and White Wolf hasn't existed as a company since 2010. They're so full of hate and spite. 5e has only made it worse.

Holding a grudge like they do is just drinking poison and expecting Paradox to suffer. Their video game revenue is bigger than the whole ttrpg industry. They're not gonna reverse their decisions.

I've moved on. I'm writing my own stuff now, inspired by the games of my youth, and enjoying it. It's sad not to have any touchstone to find likeminded folks anymore, but most people seem to be uncreative zombies anyway so I'm probably not missing much. Like, one of the reasons people hate giving feedback on r/worldbuilding is because it's 99% uncreative derivative medieval fantasy slop.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 26, 2024, 04:17:16 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 26, 2024, 03:29:40 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 26, 2024, 03:11:23 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 02:25:03 PMthe werewolves are all psychotic ecoterrorists who practice bestiality, incest and date rape,

You have a point with the ecoterrorism/ecoctivism, but the rest is total bullshit, at least in the newest (5e) version.

To be fair, I have yet to actually meet anyone who actually plays the 5th editions (the fact they just came out and said there's never going to be a Mage 5th edition was actually a relief to those fans) and nearly every former Vampire and Werewolf player I know considers V5/W5 to be complete garbage tier (and its mechanics are basically a downgrade in every possible way... including badly repurposed NWoD elements; ex. mandatory mortal touchstones for vamps) and so they refuse to accept them as editions.

5e of WoD is basically the 4E of D&D.

You are free to disagree (I mean, I liked 4E of D&D better than pretty much every edition of D&D, but I acknowledge I am outlier), but using 5e to present an argument is going to be largely discounted as on the tier of bad fanfiction for authenticity.

Fair enough. I purchased the 5e Werewolf and Hunter books (skipped Vampire because it just doesn't interest me), and I actually like a lot of what Werewolf does (Hunter less so). I have former WoD players in my group, and although we have not played it yet, most of them are willing to give it a shot.

You probably would've been quite impressed by the Chronicles of Darkness books from 20 years ago. The werewolves are fallen Sumerian god-kings who maintain the balance between worlds. The hunters have loads of cool organizations and powers and stuff, including antichrist candidates working for the Vatican and pharma companies that cut up unicorns for research.

We don't see that kind of creativity anymore. It's sad.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 10:20:02 PMLet's not engage in personal attacks, please.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack. You have yourself mentioned that you were jade or burnt out (not sure which wording you used) and that "everything is crap now" (again, paraphrasing). Unless you change the way you look at things, you'll never find something that makes you happy.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 27, 2024, 01:00:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 10:20:02 PMLet's not engage in personal attacks, please.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack. You have yourself mentioned that you were jade or burnt out (not sure which wording you used) and that "everything is crap now" (again, paraphrasing). Unless you change the way you look at things, you'll never find something that makes you happy.

Oh. Yes, you're right, I have said that. Yes, am I working on it as you suggest. I'm making my own stuff inspired by the dead stuff I liked in the past. Since copyright isn't reforming any time soon, then that's the best anyone can do. If you're upset about Disney, Warner Bros, etc. then make your own thing. You're not alone. You show people something they didn't know they wanted and they'll come.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 09:26:57 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 27, 2024, 01:00:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 10:20:02 PMLet's not engage in personal attacks, please.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack. You have yourself mentioned that you were jade or burnt out (not sure which wording you used) and that "everything is crap now" (again, paraphrasing). Unless you change the way you look at things, you'll never find something that makes you happy.

Oh. Yes, you're right, I have said that. Yes, am I working on it as you suggest. I'm making my own stuff inspired by the dead stuff I liked in the past. Since copyright isn't reforming any time soon, then that's the best anyone can do. If you're upset about Disney, Warner Bros, etc. then make your own thing. You're not alone. You show people something they didn't know they wanted and they'll come.

I'm sincerely interested to see what you come up with. I don't have a problem with some the current stuff (including a few of Renegade's WoD 5e products), but I'm always up for a new take too.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 27, 2024, 12:48:27 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 09:26:57 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 27, 2024, 01:00:34 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 26, 2024, 10:20:02 PMLet's not engage in personal attacks, please.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack. You have yourself mentioned that you were jade or burnt out (not sure which wording you used) and that "everything is crap now" (again, paraphrasing). Unless you change the way you look at things, you'll never find something that makes you happy.

Oh. Yes, you're right, I have said that. Yes, am I working on it as you suggest. I'm making my own stuff inspired by the dead stuff I liked in the past. Since copyright isn't reforming any time soon, then that's the best anyone can do. If you're upset about Disney, Warner Bros, etc. then make your own thing. You're not alone. You show people something they didn't know they wanted and they'll come.

I'm sincerely interested to see what you come up with. I don't have a problem with some the current stuff (including a few of Renegade's WoD 5e products), but I'm always up for a new take too.

I don't pride myself on originality. The thing I want is kitchen sinks. Most ttrpgs are one person's highly specific setting with rules glued on. I like genre emulators like All Flesh Must Be Eaten. Something that provides lot of tools and lots of campaign settings.

That's not to say I don't like campaign settings. I just don't like ones that gimp their potential by limiting themselves to highly specific premises, like freelance only monster hunters. That might work for a booklet, but not a whole series of books. It gets torturous and hackneyed, like a stick of butter smeared over a mountain of bread.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 01:47:22 PMI just don't like ones that gimp their potential by limiting themselves to highly specific premises, like freelance only monster hunters.

If we're still talking about Hunter 5e, then it should probably said that there is nothing stopping you from working with or for a larger organization (org), but that doing so is not the basic campaign assumption because it gives up a great deal of player autonomy. However, give Renegade enough time and I'm sure they'll drop a book all about PCs joining or founding orgs...along with some angsty subsystem that measures how much corruption of purpose the org suffers as it grows.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 27, 2024, 02:29:36 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 27, 2024, 01:47:22 PMI just don't like ones that gimp their potential by limiting themselves to highly specific premises, like freelance only monster hunters.

If we're still talking about Hunter 5e, then it should probably said that there is nothing stopping you from working with or for a larger organization (org), but that doing so is not the basic campaign assumption because it gives up a great deal of player autonomy. However, give Renegade enough time and I'm sure they'll drop a book all about PCs joining or founding orgs...along with some angsty subsystem that measures how much corruption of purpose the org suffers as it grows.

Hunter: The Vigil, Chill, Dark•Matter, Delta Green, Monster of the Week, and other conspiracy thriller games too numerous to list already did organizations, did it better, and did it without a chip on their shoulder. Nobody thought it was a problem back then, and it's not a problem now.

But we're getting off topic.