So this is actually for a skirmish wargame rather than an RPG, but it's something I've had trouble with when coming up with homebrew for both. I just feel that the usual 'rolling for damage and subtracting HPs' is lacking, but on the other hand I can't come up with anything to replace it that really clicks with me — and I've tried out a few. They're either cool but too fiddly or nice and smooth but, well, boring.

What's the most satisfying damage mechanic you've found in an RPG/wargame/boardgame?

[hard mode: no WHFRP]

I think the one I've grown to like overall when not doing D&D or a close cousin is damage based on the margin of success.

This could either be...

1) on its own with the check roll taking into account both the accuracy and damage potential of the weapon (usually best when attacks have sufficient potency that a near miss/graze would still do some damage to justify adding damage into the attack roll... or a system where the damage is mostly abstract so the effect is more about breaking the target's morale or some such).

2) with a modifier added after the check succeeds to reflect the difference in damage potential... typically most useful when the typical margin of success and the damage from a big weapon are relatively close to each other so that skill can matter, but the weapon itself isn't irrelevant.

3) as a multiplier to the margin of success. This one will generally get more realistic results, but is heavier on math needed by the players unless the margins and multipliers are relatively small.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 20, 2024, 02:31:12 PMI think the one I've grown to like overall when not doing D&D or a close cousin is damage based on the margin of success.

This could either be...

1) on its own with the check roll taking into account both the accuracy and damage potential of the weapon (usually best when attacks have sufficient potency that a near miss/graze would still do some damage to justify adding damage into the attack roll... or a system where the damage is mostly abstract so the effect is more about breaking the target's morale or some such).

2) with a modifier added after the check succeeds to reflect the difference in damage potential... typically most useful when the typical margin of success and the damage from a big weapon are relatively close to each other so that skill can matter, but the weapon itself isn't irrelevant.

3) as a multiplier to the margin of success. This one will generally get more realistic results, but is heavier on math needed by the players unless the margins and multipliers are relatively small.

There's also a variation on this that can be seen in the Wrath & Glory game. Margin of success gives "Icons" that can be spent on activating special effects (some come from the weapon, some from talents or special abilities) linked to the attack. With any attack, it is possible to spend Icons on ED (extra-damage dice), but it is possible to get a result of 0 on an ED, so it's not a guarantee of extra damage.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 20, 2024, 05:01:57 PMThere's also a variation on this that can be seen in the Wrath & Glory game. Margin of success gives "Icons" that can be spent on activating special effects (some come from the weapon, some from talents or special abilities) linked to the attack. With any attack, it is possible to spend Icons on ED (extra-damage dice), but it is possible to get a result of 0 on an ED, so it's not a guarantee of extra damage.

That sounds interesting! Seems like a good way to keep things smooth and moving along at a clip while avoiding the common pitfall of simplified mechanics where a dagger/9mm pistol often ends up doing the same damage as a battleaxe/50cal once it's gotten past armor etc.

Thanks, I'll check that out.

Frostgrave:
1. Both figures make a Combat Roll – roll d20 and add the figure's Fight stat and any other relevant modifiers (e.g. bonuses from magic or supporting figures).
2. Determine the winner by comparing Combat Rolls – highest wins.
3. Add any damage modifiers (such as +2 for a two-handed weapon or -1 for a dagger) to the winner's Combat Roll.
4. Subtract the opponent's Armor stat from this total.
5. Apply any damage multipliers.
6. If the final total is greater than 0, subtract that many points from the loser's Health. If it is 0 or negative, no damage is done.
7. The winner now has the choice to remain in combat or push either themselves or their opponent back by 1".

Rolling a natural 20 is a Critical Hit and automatically wins the exchange, even if the opponent has a higher total. Critical Hits have +5 damage.

Big fan of frostgrave, and yeah their hit/damage/armour mechanic is very neat! I like how you can beat an enemy's poor combat roll but still bounce off the armour regardless if you didn't roll well.

However I feel this does only work for medieval or possibly modern combat, where a good hit represents skillfully landing a blow in a weak point of the armour or a soft spot like the eye or throat. Once you start dealing with plasma cannon and such I feel the need to break the to-hit and the to-damage rolls up.

You've reminded me that I have a little gang of goblins to paint up for frostgrave though!

Quote from: Bubu on December 20, 2024, 09:27:54 AMSo this is actually for a skirmish wargame rather than an RPG, but it's something I've had trouble with when coming up with homebrew for both. I just feel that the usual 'rolling for damage and subtracting HPs' is lacking, but on the other hand I can't come up with anything to replace it that really clicks with me — and I've tried out a few. They're either cool but too fiddly or nice and smooth but, well, boring.

What's the most satisfying damage mechanic you've found in an RPG/wargame/boardgame?

[hard mode: no WHFRP]

If we are talking about TTRPG, then I would suggest that the first thing to start from is what level of realism and detail the game group wants or the tone of the rules we are developing.

At a high level of abstraction and freedom of interpretation, we can simply track the amount of HP, and if we get 0, roll on the "Death & Dismemberment" table

At the most realistic level, we can take, for example, a solution from GURPS, but then we must accept all the complications that follow from this.

Unfortunately, I have not encountered any elegant intermediate solutions, I will be glad to learn about them

Quote from: Bubu on December 21, 2024, 11:34:56 AMHowever I feel this does only work for medieval or possibly modern combat, where a good hit represents skillfully landing a blow in a weak point of the armour or a soft spot like the eye or throat. Once you start dealing with plasma cannon and such I feel the need to break the to-hit and the to-damage rolls up.

Stargrave uses the same system, and we hacked it to run a Star Wars campaign for about a year and a half. Combats run pretty quick and fluidly. Damage is something to be avoided as much as possible for unprotected characters.

I use Horrible Woulds from Mork Borg for injury after loss of hit points. It's led to some heroic moments.
https://zordvil.itch.io/horrible-wounds

Quote from: Melichor on December 22, 2024, 03:42:19 PMStargrave uses the same system, and we hacked it to run a Star Wars campaign for about a year and a half. Combats run pretty quick and fluidly. Damage is something to be avoided as much as possible for unprotected characters.

Oh yeah! I forgot they did a scifi version. I'll check it out and see if I can pilfer some ideas.

Quote from: MrTheFalcon on December 22, 2024, 07:39:15 PMI use Horrible Woulds from Mork Borg for injury after loss of hit points. It's led to some heroic moments.
https://zordvil.itch.io/horrible-wounds

This is the general thing I'm leaning towards — an 'out of action' removes them from the table, with an injury roll after the game. A lot of the older GW games I love do it that way — Mordheim, Blood Bowl, Necromunda.