Quote from: RPGPundit on December 08, 2024, 08:29:25 AM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on December 08, 2024, 12:27:48 AMAn interesting possibility, though I have to ask does this mean for your historical authentic products would they be put on the back burner for the duration of your stay at WOTC?

In the unlikely event that Elon buys WotC, and the also unlikely event that he hired me to fix D&D, I suppose that my own projects would be on hold. Duty has its costs.

Bolding mine.

I know that this is just meant jokingly, but the next head of D&D can't just view it as a duty. If the person does not view it as a holy calling requiring the focus of their life at that moment, then it just ain't gonna work.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 09, 2024, 12:22:39 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 09, 2024, 11:17:42 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 09, 2024, 07:00:06 AMWhat I expect is that casual gamers will do so, the more D&D looks like mainstream Heroic Fantasy, and the less it looks like a lecture on Diversity combined with an Eat/Pray/Love tumblr-fantasy tourism simulator.

So why not go for the easy path and just re-release the 2024 books with different art? Mechanically, the 2024 versions are considerably improved over the 2014 versions.

Scotty's Rule as applied to marketing; if you oversell how big of a problem there is to fix, then the more impressive it is when you fix it.

Honestly, I've seen a vast amount of 2024's class fixes in various people's homebrew class fixes on GMBinder. The issues with 2014 5e (and the most efficacious fixes) are well known within the sphere of homebrew/designer circles. It honestly reads like the WotC design team took all the GMBinder options, sorted out the most used with an AI algorithm, and used the results as the new book.

Other than the basic problem of 5e having always been a largely soulless hodgepodge of rewritten/obscured 3e and 4E mechanics with little in the way of a true spine (hence the need for "rulings not rules"), yes, the 2024 version, outside of art, layout and maybe 10% of the non-rules fluff text, is vastly superior to the 2014 version.

I'd be happy enough with the 2024 version without the crappy art. Of course, I don't buy for the art and we both seem to feel that the book's game contents are plenty servicable. It's like everyone here get's a chance to drive a well-made car but thier reviews can only focus on the fact that it's got a bad paint job.

Honestly, D&D is kinda dead, murdered by DEI and terminal wokeness ...
The freelancers, who are being paid a dime, are using, as they are wont to do, their notority, to fund their paersonal projects, through Kickstarter, and I will not condemned them ...
The Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro leadership has both failed D&D legacy (by libelling the late Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson ...) and betrayed its consumer base, by producing souless products, who are only aimed, at the weirdo who wrote them ...
At least, the OGL is forever, and WotC/Hasbro cannot seize my books and tell me how to play D&D, at my own table.
It is the end of an era, which peak clown world, yet laughing is a gift and being alive in Western countries has never been better ...
I will enjoy it, while it lasts ...

Quote from: yabaziou on December 09, 2024, 04:10:45 PMHonestly, D&D is kinda dead, murdered by DEI and terminal wokeness ...
The freelancers, who are being paid a dime, are using, as they are wont to do, their notority, to fund their paersonal projects, through Kickstarter, and I will not condemned them ...
The Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro leadership has both failed D&D legacy (by libelling the late Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson ...) and betrayed its consumer base, by producing souless products, who are only aimed, at the weirdo who wrote them ...
At least, the OGL is forever, and WotC/Hasbro cannot seize my books and tell me how to play D&D, at my own table.
It is the end of an era, which peak clown world, yet laughing is a gift and being alive in Western countries has never been better ...
I will enjoy it, while it lasts ...

You are obviously not qualified to pronounce death. D&D is alive and well (even if weirder than before).

I am, far more qualified, than the present (and failing) WotC/Hasbro leasership and creative team and you, HappyDaze ...
I do not know what you are high, but the D&D 2024 is the very defintion of creative bankruptcy, but if you like that, good for you, those books are not going to sellthemselves ...

Quote from: yabaziou on December 09, 2024, 05:52:48 PMthose books are not going to sellthemselves ...

No, they are not, but they aren't having any problems selling, so they've done something right.

But if you're more qualified, by all means apply for a position and show us what you can do.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 09, 2024, 07:06:48 AMThe evidence seems to say NO, for the most part. Of course, old schoolers moved to the OSR, and some people have kept going that way as D&D became more and more insufferable. But Pathfinder hasn't gotten bigger in the last 10 years, rather much much smaller. EVERY bigger-size game that isn't D&D has lost participation, only indie games (mainly, overwhelmingly, the OSR) have actually had significant net growth over the last 10 years.

What this means is that you have a bunch of people who really liked 5e when we created it, and as the products became progressively (in both senses of the word) worse, those people either just stopped buying stuff and kept playing 5e with what they had (or possibly some 3rd party 5e stuff), or just stopped playing altogether.

Steadily reduced sales has been the case for every RPG edition ever. Once people have a big pile of current-edition books on their shelf, it becomes harder and harder to sell a new book to everyone. The player base gets into new and different variations. This was just as true of TSR, and every other major RPG company.

Over ten years, 5E players diversified into various homebrews and branch settings and third party products, so it has been progressively harder to sell any single D&D book to the majority of the market. This is exactly the edition treadmill. The past ten years from 2014 5E to now is a pretty long time for a new edition -- most RPGs go through the edition treadmill more quickly.


I have some idea about what I'd like to do with WotC for my own tastes, but I'm also pretty sure that would be a disaster financially. I have no illusions that my tastes are objectively shared by the majority of RPG players. If I wanted to run WotC as a successful business, I'd look for at least someone who has had a large-scale financial success in RPGs.

The best evidence I've seen has been Kickstarter, which has the most transparent sales numbers:

https://rpggeek.com/geeklist/280234/rpg-kickstarter-geeklist-tracking?itemid=9436297

Over the past few years, some of the biggest campaigns have been:

$9.5M : Avatar Legends RPG, 2021
$4.0M : The Crooked Moon (5E), 2023
$3.4M : Zombicide 2nd edition, 2019
$3.3M : Yokai Realms (5E), 2023
$2.6M : Obojima Tales (5E), 2023
$2.6M : Strongholds & Streaming (5E), 2018
$2.7M : Eldritch Hunt (5E), 2022
$2.5M : Fool's Gold (5E), 2021
$2.1M : Old Gods of Appallachia, 2022
$2.1M : Tanares RPG (5E), 2021

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 09, 2024, 11:17:42 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 09, 2024, 07:00:06 AMWhat I expect is that casual gamers will do so, the more D&D looks like mainstream Heroic Fantasy, and the less it looks like a lecture on Diversity combined with an Eat/Pray/Love tumblr-fantasy tourism simulator.

So why not go for the easy path and just re-release the 2024 books with different art? Mechanically, the 2024 versions are considerably improved over the 2014 versions.

I disagree. They did correct a few things, but they also added stuff that will make the game worse.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 10, 2024, 11:17:46 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 09, 2024, 11:17:42 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 09, 2024, 07:00:06 AMWhat I expect is that casual gamers will do so, the more D&D looks like mainstream Heroic Fantasy, and the less it looks like a lecture on Diversity combined with an Eat/Pray/Love tumblr-fantasy tourism simulator.

So why not go for the easy path and just re-release the 2024 books with different art? Mechanically, the 2024 versions are considerably improved over the 2014 versions.

I disagree. They did correct a few things, but they also added stuff that will make the game worse.

Examples? Besides the art, which I think we both agree is crap.

Quote from: zircher on December 09, 2024, 11:21:37 AMAppendix N is the soul of D&D.  Without it, you get the rot that we have.  Not sure what the fix would be.  Add short story snippets from the masters and include them in chapter headers with sources so that people new to them would get a teaser?  Popular quotes from media that embrace the swords and sorcery feel?  Elon levels of money and influence might get the kind of rights needed for that.

I don't think appendix N is the soul of D&D; heroic fantasy is the soul of D&D. Appendix N happened to be a pretty good list of what constituted heroic fantasy at the time of the creation of the AD&D DMG. The list wouldn't be the same today, but the inclusion of a list wouldn't really be that important. What's important is to get to the Monomyth of Heroic Fantasy.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 09, 2024, 12:43:17 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 08, 2024, 08:29:25 AM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on December 08, 2024, 12:27:48 AMAn interesting possibility, though I have to ask does this mean for your historical authentic products would they be put on the back burner for the duration of your stay at WOTC?

In the unlikely event that Elon buys WotC, and the also unlikely event that he hired me to fix D&D, I suppose that my own projects would be on hold. Duty has its costs.

Bolding mine.

I know that this is just meant jokingly, but the next head of D&D can't just view it as a duty. If the person does not view it as a holy calling requiring the focus of their life at that moment, then it just ain't gonna work.

I think that you're underestimating the significance of the word "duty".

Quote from: jhkim on December 10, 2024, 01:09:12 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 09, 2024, 07:06:48 AMThe evidence seems to say NO, for the most part. Of course, old schoolers moved to the OSR, and some people have kept going that way as D&D became more and more insufferable. But Pathfinder hasn't gotten bigger in the last 10 years, rather much much smaller. EVERY bigger-size game that isn't D&D has lost participation, only indie games (mainly, overwhelmingly, the OSR) have actually had significant net growth over the last 10 years.

What this means is that you have a bunch of people who really liked 5e when we created it, and as the products became progressively (in both senses of the word) worse, those people either just stopped buying stuff and kept playing 5e with what they had (or possibly some 3rd party 5e stuff), or just stopped playing altogether.

Steadily reduced sales has been the case for every RPG edition ever. Once people have a big pile of current-edition books on their shelf, it becomes harder and harder to sell a new book to everyone. The player base gets into new and different variations. This was just as true of TSR, and every other major RPG company.

Over ten years, 5E players diversified into various homebrews and branch settings and third party products, so it has been progressively harder to sell any single D&D book to the majority of the market. This is exactly the edition treadmill. The past ten years from 2014 5E to now is a pretty long time for a new edition -- most RPGs go through the edition treadmill more quickly.


I have some idea about what I'd like to do with WotC for my own tastes, but I'm also pretty sure that would be a disaster financially. I have no illusions that my tastes are objectively shared by the majority of RPG players. If I wanted to run WotC as a successful business, I'd look for at least someone who has had a large-scale financial success in RPGs.

The best evidence I've seen has been Kickstarter, which has the most transparent sales numbers:

https://rpggeek.com/geeklist/280234/rpg-kickstarter-geeklist-tracking?itemid=9436297

Over the past few years, some of the biggest campaigns have been:

$9.5M : Avatar Legends RPG, 2021
$4.0M : The Crooked Moon (5E), 2023
$3.4M : Zombicide 2nd edition, 2019
$3.3M : Yokai Realms (5E), 2023
$2.6M : Obojima Tales (5E), 2023
$2.6M : Strongholds & Streaming (5E), 2018
$2.7M : Eldritch Hunt (5E), 2022
$2.5M : Fool's Gold (5E), 2021
$2.1M : Old Gods of Appallachia, 2022
$2.1M : Tanares RPG (5E), 2021

Your first mistake (well, probably far from the first, but the worst) is the idea that D&D should be written to the creator's "taste". If I'd done that while consulting for 5e, the game would not have been the success it was (be it because Mearls would have had the good sense to ignore me then, or if he'd followed my whims, either way).

That's a common problem for designers; for example its part of why Monte Cook, who had originally been involved with 5e's early design, had to go.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 10, 2024, 11:20:53 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 09, 2024, 12:43:17 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 08, 2024, 08:29:25 AM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on December 08, 2024, 12:27:48 AMAn interesting possibility, though I have to ask does this mean for your historical authentic products would they be put on the back burner for the duration of your stay at WOTC?

In the unlikely event that Elon buys WotC, and the also unlikely event that he hired me to fix D&D, I suppose that my own projects would be on hold. Duty has its costs.

Bolding mine.

I know that this is just meant jokingly, but the next head of D&D can't just view it as a duty. If the person does not view it as a holy calling requiring the focus of their life at that moment, then it just ain't gonna work.

I think that you're underestimating the significance of the word "duty".

I think that you both don't realize that you are talking to a veteran and woefully underestimate the deleterious affect upon your credibility that the Pundit persona generates.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 10, 2024, 12:35:50 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 10, 2024, 11:20:53 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 09, 2024, 12:43:17 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 08, 2024, 08:29:25 AM

Quote from: Socratic-DM on December 08, 2024, 12:27:48 AMAn interesting possibility, though I have to ask does this mean for your historical authentic products would they be put on the back burner for the duration of your stay at WOTC?

In the unlikely event that Elon buys WotC, and the also unlikely event that he hired me to fix D&D, I suppose that my own projects would be on hold. Duty has its costs.

Bolding mine.

I know that this is just meant jokingly, but the next head of D&D can't just view it as a duty. If the person does not view it as a holy calling requiring the focus of their life at that moment, then it just ain't gonna work.

I think that you're underestimating the significance of the word "duty".

I think that you both don't realize that you are talking to a veteran and woefully underestimate the deleterious affect upon your credibility that the Pundit persona generates.

If you're a veteran you should know that while many people use the word "duty" flippantly, there are some people who don't.

I liked the mechanics for 5E.  Why I stepped away from it was that the supplements just seemed like more rules pasted on a backdrop.  If a solid campaign setting was made for it I would have no problem picking it up.