Quote from: Omega on November 18, 2024, 11:51:41 PMNever understood why the dislike or even hostility towards the pre-2000 stuff..

Because people enjoy it, and it has no Deeper Meaning.

Like most political extremists, they're puritanical, which means that they are distressed at the idea that someone, somewhere is having fun - especially if they're having fun in a bad way (whatever that is this week). And because the personal is political, every act is imbued with political meaning, but because the political extremist is not very smart, this has to be explicitly spelled-out.

That's why for example their attempt at including disabled people in their games isn't, "Hey Jim, come play D&D with us," but it's making models of adventurers in wheelchairs - because hey, disabled people really really want to play someone disabled - after all, doesn't a fat accountant want to play a fat accountant, and a ditch digger play a ditch digger, and a housewife a housewife? Absolutely nobody plays RPGs to play someone different and more able than they are. Nobody. Never happens. Except all the times it does happen, which is basically always.

Imagine that, eh? You invite Jim in his wheelchair to play, he rolls up to the table and picks up his dice, and you hand him a figurine of a character in a wheelchair, "This is your guy." That's like, inclusive - if you're some pasty-faced fat-arsed blue-haired middle class dickhead who's never actually met a disabled person.

So it's all got to be deep and meaningful, and everyone knows depressing stuff is more deep and meaningful than having fun.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on November 19, 2024, 05:12:04 AMThat's why for example their attempt at including disabled people in their games isn't, "Hey Jim, come play D&D with us," but it's making models of adventurers in wheelchairs - because hey, disabled people really really want to play someone disabled - after all, doesn't a fat accountant want to play a fat accountant, and a ditch digger play a ditch digger, and a housewife a housewife? Absolutely nobody plays RPGs to play someone different and more able than they are. Nobody. Never happens. Except all the times it does happen, which is basically always.

Imagine that, eh? You invite Jim in his wheelchair to play, he rolls up to the table and picks up his dice, and you hand him a figurine of a character in a wheelchair, "This is your guy." That's like, inclusive - if you're some pasty-faced fat-arsed blue-haired middle class dickhead who's never actually met a disabled person.

This has to be the weirdest thing to me. I just don't get it. For the longest time, playing RPGs was to escape reality and be somebody else. In the past five years or so, it has morphed into YOU being you in a RPG.

Now there have always been a few people who have played that way. But that was the exception, and not the norm. For me, for people who play at being themselves in the game, lack a certain amount of creativity.

I could see for a new player that's the most comfortable way to "get into it". IT's a new experience and being yourself doesn't require effort.

But to make it appear as being part of the accepted meta? It just seems weird.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on November 19, 2024, 05:12:04 AMThat's why for example their attempt at including disabled people in their games isn't, "Hey Jim, come play D&D with us," but it's making models of adventurers in wheelchairs -

They don't care about being inclusive.  They care about virtue signaling about being inclusive.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on November 19, 2024, 12:10:17 AMOne suggestion for which, The Price of Freedom, was rejected because it "is largely about being All-American and punching communists. That's exactly what I'm not looking for in an anti-fascist RPG."

I read that and thought in disbelief, "Holy crap, you guys have literally become the freakin' Weimar Republic and you don't even know it."

    Did you see the post where someone said "I ran "Comrades" at a socialist convention in 2017 or so. Very well received."?

    Someone on the EN World counterpart to that thread recommended Day After Ragnarok. I expect recommending it on TBP would raise their ire for its anti-Stalinist leanings and its vilification of the Serpent.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on November 19, 2024, 09:16:13 AMDid you see the post where someone said "I ran "Comrades" at a socialist convention in 2017 or so. Very well received."?

I'm not familiar with the game, or I'd probably have gotten the joke.

I take it it's a satiric thing?  (A game based on the film The Death of Stalin would make for some serious black comedy.)

ETA:  Just looked it up on DriveThruRPG.  Good grief.  Under the Description: "Playing as characters like the Soldier, the Student, the Propagandist, and the Worker, your comrades will mount rallies, stage coups, evade the secret police, and fight fascist goons." And then under "A Note About Content": "This game does not advocate for political violence, and is instead designed to help players explore the limitations of the use of force for political ends." Judas Priest, I haven't seen a game try this hard to backpedal away from its own inevitable implications since the new edition of Ravenloft tried to make the Demiplane of Dread not scary.

Quote from: blackstone on November 19, 2024, 08:01:48 AMThis has to be the weirdest thing to me. I just don't get it. For the longest time, playing RPGs was to escape reality and be somebody else. In the past five years or so, it has morphed into YOU being you in a RPG.

Sometimes it feels like the storygamers pushing "bleed" to the point it becomes a psychosis is part of this.

But it is more marketing pushing fake ideals. "No one will play an RPG unless they are "represented". And that you can not play something you are not. Some SJWs were even pushing that you should not be allowed to enjoy media of things you are not. Which is so far beyond insane.

Never saw much of that over on TBP when I was active there.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on November 19, 2024, 05:12:04 AM

Quote from: Omega on November 18, 2024, 11:51:41 PMNever understood why the dislike or even hostility towards the pre-2000 stuff..

Because people enjoy it, and it has no Deeper Meaning.

Like most political extremists, they're puritanical, which means that they are distressed at the idea that someone, somewhere is having fun - especially if they're having fun in a bad way (whatever that is this week). And because the personal is political, every act is imbued with political meaning, but because the political extremist is not very smart, this has to be explicitly spelled-out.

That's why for example their attempt at including disabled people in their games isn't, "Hey Jim, come play D&D with us," but it's making models of adventurers in wheelchairs - because hey, disabled people really really want to play someone disabled - after all, doesn't a fat accountant want to play a fat accountant, and a ditch digger play a ditch digger, and a housewife a housewife? Absolutely nobody plays RPGs to play someone different and more able than they are. Nobody. Never happens. Except all the times it does happen, which is basically always.

Imagine that, eh? You invite Jim in his wheelchair to play, he rolls up to the table and picks up his dice, and you hand him a figurine of a character in a wheelchair, "This is your guy." That's like, inclusive - if you're some pasty-faced fat-arsed blue-haired middle class dickhead who's never actually met a disabled person.

So it's all got to be deep and meaningful, and everyone knows depressing stuff is more deep and meaningful than having fun.

Don't be a bigot against the combat wheelchair.  The left used the combat rascal wheel chair at the Senate today with a Whale Half Manatee rogue who failed her stealth check due to her fat rolls.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on November 19, 2024, 09:54:05 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on November 19, 2024, 09:16:13 AMDid you see the post where someone said "I ran "Comrades" at a socialist convention in 2017 or so. Very well received."?

I'm not familiar with the game, or I'd probably have gotten the joke.

I take it it's a satiric thing?  (A game based on the film The Death of Stalin would make for some serious black comedy.)

ETA:  Just looked it up on DriveThruRPG.  Good grief.  Under the Description: "Playing as characters like the Soldier, the Student, the Propagandist, and the Worker, your comrades will mount rallies, stage coups, evade the secret police, and fight fascist goons." And then under "A Note About Content": "This game does not advocate for political violence, and is instead designed to help players explore the limitations of the use of force for political ends." Judas Priest, I haven't seen a game try this hard to backpedal away from its own inevitable implications since the new edition of Ravenloft tried to make the Demiplane of Dread not scary.

THIS DISCLAIMER IS A LIE.
Do not buy the game.
The game COMRADES, both in the introduction, and on its crowdfunding site, BOLDLY ADVOCATES REAL-LIFE VIOLENCE.  I'm not talking about in-game violence, although it advocates that.  But the actual content laments where the "Real" revolutionaries have gone, and invites the gamers to, after pretending to be good little communists, to get involved in real "activism", telling them to act like such groups as The Weather Underground, a real-life domestic terrorist organization who bombed the pentagon before Al Qaeda got the idea, murdered a federal judge, and engaged in other goodness.

I reported this to DriveThru several times.  They didn't do anything about it, since it's a violation of their TOS that conforms to an agenda with which they align.  Instead, the Comrades page reacted by putting up a disclaimer (the reason for their "backpedaling" that you mention).  It doens't change a thing about the game, or Drive Thru allowing material advocating violence on their site, but somehow this lie makes everything fine now.

If you're curious about reading the game's advocacy of violence, don't get it.  The author is a bona-fide communist, and we wouldn't want to disappoint him by giving him any profit for his horrible product.  There are other was to find what's in it without engaging in evil capitalism.

Who fucking cares? The more you talk about them, the more relevant they remain. Personally? I want to see them completely slide into irrelevancy and completely fade away. No longer be a thing anyone talks about. And just be a bad memory.

We have this place to talk about gaming. Pundit made it for real gamers to talk about games and gaming. So let's get to it! Cut the irrelevant crap and be an actual successful gaming forum.

When I poked in yesterday one thing really perplexed me.

Why does the site look so... primitive? Compared to how clean and browsable it looked just maybe 5 years ago?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 20, 2024, 04:27:38 PMWho fucking cares? The more you talk about them, the more relevant they remain. Personally? I want to see them completely slide into irrelevancy and completely fade away. No longer be a thing anyone talks about. And just be a bad memory.

We have this place to talk about gaming. Pundit made it for real gamers to talk about games and gaming. So let's get to it! Cut the irrelevant crap and be an actual successful gaming forum.

Agree with most of what you say.
But — there's a non-zero chance some posters here are very focused on big purple. It comes up a lot over here.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 20, 2024, 04:27:38 PMWho fucking cares? The more you talk about them, the more relevant they remain. Personally? I want to see them completely slide into irrelevancy and completely fade away. No longer be a thing anyone talks about. And just be a bad memory.

We have this place to talk about gaming. Pundit made it for real gamers to talk about games and gaming. So let's get to it! Cut the irrelevant crap and be an actual successful gaming forum.

The culture war is all consuming for most posters here.

Quote from: mikelaff on November 22, 2024, 10:32:53 AM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 20, 2024, 04:27:38 PMWho fucking cares? The more you talk about them, the more relevant they remain. Personally? I want to see them completely slide into irrelevancy and completely fade away. No longer be a thing anyone talks about. And just be a bad memory.

We have this place to talk about gaming. Pundit made it for real gamers to talk about games and gaming. So let's get to it! Cut the irrelevant crap and be an actual successful gaming forum.

Agree with most of what you say.
But — there's a non-zero chance some posters here are very focused on big purple. It comes up a lot over here.

Ignoring this crap is how it got to be so pervasive.

Pundit himself has made hay over "The Swine", and so it's not like therpgsite is just about gaming. It's always been about gaming in the context of culture and communities.

Quote from: zircher on November 17, 2024, 06:51:40 PMMaybe this forum should start posting badges.  A lot of folks can get a 'purple heart' for getting banned there.  :-)

[edit for typo]

Not sure I have the space for all those medals. 

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on November 18, 2024, 05:53:20 PMMeanwhile, over in Tabletop Roleplaying Open, they are eagerly making recommendations of 'anti-fascist/Nazi-punching' RPGs as a way to cope with the current events.

Someone should recommend The Invisible College on there... the Order of Thule (nazis) are major villains. Of course, not as powerful as the main villains of the Black Lodge (WEF).