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Opinions on the Greyhawk coverage in the 2024 DMG

Started by HappyDaze, November 06, 2024, 03:00:28 AM

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M2A0

#15
November 06, 2024, 08:58:50 PM
Quote from: Tristan on November 06, 2024, 05:28:28 PMNations with female ruler changes:
Dyvers
Greyhawk (possibly) Eric to Erlynn
Perrenland
Verbobonc
South Province
Lordship of the Isles
Sunndi (possibly) Hazendel to Valenta
Ice Barbarians
Snow Barbarians
Wolf Nomads
Geoff
Sterich
Principality of Ulek
Yeomanry (possibly) Crispin Redwell (human) to Vyndi Skyspea (goliath)
Ket
Ull



Wow, that's insane. I hate woke D&D.

ForgottenF

#16
November 06, 2024, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Tristan on November 06, 2024, 05:28:28 PMNations with female ruler changes:
Dyvers
Greyhawk (possibly) Eric to Erlynn
Perrenland
Verbobonc
South Province
Lordship of the Isles
Sunndi (possibly) Hazendel to Valenta
Ice Barbarians
Snow Barbarians
Wolf Nomads
Geoff
Sterich
Principality of Ulek
Yeomanry (possibly) Crispin Redwell (human) to Vyndi Skyspea (goliath)
Ket
Ull

That's a long list. How many faction leaders to they name in 28 pages?
Playing: Mongoose Traveller 2e
Running: Dolmenwood
Planning: Warlock!, Savage Lankhmar, Kogarashi

Tristan

#17
November 06, 2024, 10:44:27 PM
Three tables, broken up by region.
 

HappyDaze

#18
November 06, 2024, 11:30:36 PM
Quote from: Tristan on November 06, 2024, 10:44:27 PMThree tables, broken up by region.
Five tables, but some are shorter than others.

honeydipperdavid

#19
November 07, 2024, 02:25:31 AM
Dude, it was Arneson, Laofka and Gygax's world.  By the time 2E came out, they were all gone.  What TSR wrote with the Iuz was is not something I'd want.  I really preferred the World of Greyhawk boxed set and I'd rather WotC go back to that setting and work with the countries and political alliances.

Nobleshield

#20
November 07, 2024, 06:32:37 AM
Quote from: Tristan on November 06, 2024, 05:28:28 PMNations with female ruler changes:
Dyvers
Greyhawk (possibly) Eric to Erlynn
Perrenland
Verbobonc
South Province
Lordship of the Isles
Sunndi (possibly) Hazendel to Valenta
Ice Barbarians
Snow Barbarians
Wolf Nomads
Geoff
Sterich
Principality of Ulek
Yeomanry (possibly) Crispin Redwell (human) to Vyndi Skyspea (goliath)
Ket
Ull


Given the 2024 Greyhawk is supposed to be back to the original 1E 576 version based on the map this is a HUGE yikes, since the gold box set who the rulers were in that time period. I was fine (although I didn't like it) with them changing stuff with the wars/from the ashes/Living Greyhawk eras since those were in the future. But this is like bringing back pre-Time of Troubles Forgotten Realms and willy-nilly changing races and genders and shit for established rulers.

HappyDaze

#21
November 07, 2024, 09:48:53 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 07, 2024, 02:25:31 AMDude, it was Arneson, Laofka and Gygax's world.  By the time 2E came out, they were all gone.  What TSR wrote with the Iuz was is not something I'd want.  I really preferred the World of Greyhawk boxed set and I'd rather WotC go back to that setting and work with the countries and political alliances.
If you're mean you like the setting before the Greyhawk Wars, then you're in luck because the 2024 Greyhawk content is set before those take place. Several of the growing political alliances (and feuds) are mentioned.

HappyDaze

#22
November 07, 2024, 09:56:34 AM
Quote from: Nobleshield on November 07, 2024, 06:32:37 AM
Quote from: Tristan on November 06, 2024, 05:28:28 PMNations with female ruler changes:
Dyvers
Greyhawk (possibly) Eric to Erlynn
Perrenland
Verbobonc
South Province
Lordship of the Isles
Sunndi (possibly) Hazendel to Valenta
Ice Barbarians
Snow Barbarians
Wolf Nomads
Geoff
Sterich
Principality of Ulek
Yeomanry (possibly) Crispin Redwell (human) to Vyndi Skyspea (goliath)
Ket
Ull


Given the 2024 Greyhawk is supposed to be back to the original 1E 576 version based on the map this is a HUGE yikes, since the gold box set who the rulers were in that time period. I was fine (although I didn't like it) with them changing stuff with the wars/from the ashes/Living Greyhawk eras since those were in the future. But this is like bringing back pre-Time of Troubles Forgotten Realms and willy-nilly changing races and genders and shit for established rulers.
How many of those "established rulers" had more than a single line of text before? The only one that really stands out to me is the Prince (now Princess) of the Principality of Ulek. These changes represent the desire to make D&D worlds feel more inclusive. There are far more female players now than there were 4 decades ago, so they figured that new players (not us) would like a world with more female leaders. I don't really object, but that's because I don't see the change as a dramatic alteration to the world nor do I feel it disrespects the setting or its original writers.

hedgehobbit

#23
November 07, 2024, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 06, 2024, 04:20:54 PM<snip>
and IMO these changes hardly impact the play of the game other than letting players know that these species exist among the NPCs of the world (the art has a few dragonborn in the background too).

How many times do we have to point this out? If it didn't impact the play of the game they wouldn't have made the changes.

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 07, 2024, 09:56:34 AMHow many of those "established rulers" had more than a single line of text before? The only one that really stands out to me is the Prince (now Princess) of the Principality of Ulek. These changes represent the desire to make D&D worlds feel more inclusive. There are far more female players now than there were 4 decades ago, so they figured that new players (not us) would like a world with more female leaders. I don't really object, but that's because I don't see the change as a dramatic alteration to the world nor do I feel it disrespects the setting or its original writers.

No female gamer has ever refused to play a game because there weren't enough female NPCs in the source material. In fact, if this is your belief then wouldn't putting lots of female NPCs in the game mean that fewer men would play it? Or does this just work one way?

Exploderwizard

#24
November 07, 2024, 12:02:58 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 07, 2024, 09:56:34 AMHow many of those "established rulers" had more than a single line of text before? The only one that really stands out to me is the Prince (now Princess) of the Principality of Ulek. These changes represent the desire to make D&D worlds feel more inclusive. There are far more female players now than there were 4 decades ago, so they figured that new players (not us) would like a world with more female leaders. I don't really object, but that's because I don't see the change as a dramatic alteration to the world nor do I feel it disrespects the setting or its original writers.

WOTC is free to use their vast resources and creative genius to create a new setting that is 100% inclusive and full of transgender Dr. Doolittle races, and whatever else they want. They won't do that because its easier to just crap all over IP that they already own.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Philotomy Jurament

#25
November 07, 2024, 01:02:44 PM
My opinion: stick to the 1980 folio or the 1983 boxed set. That's Greyhawk.
The problem is not that power corrupts, but that the corruptible are irresistibly drawn to the pursuit of power. Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

Armchair Gamer

#26
November 07, 2024, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on November 07, 2024, 10:36:56 AMNo female gamer has ever refused to play a game because there weren't enough female NPCs in the source material.

  Are we sure about this? I remember one industry writer over on TBP reporting that "I know more than one person who never really got into The Hobbit because the sole female character presented for them to relate to was Lobelia Sackville-Baggins."

M2A0

#27
November 07, 2024, 02:38:34 PM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on November 07, 2024, 01:02:44 PMMy opinion: stick to the 1980 folio or the 1983 boxed set. That's Greyhawk.

The 2001 Living Greyhawk Gazeteer is an overlooked book that really deserves for love.

Nobleshield

#28
November 07, 2024, 03:32:57 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 07, 2024, 09:56:34 AM
Quote from: Nobleshield on November 07, 2024, 06:32:37 AM
Quote from: Tristan on November 06, 2024, 05:28:28 PMNations with female ruler changes:
Dyvers
Greyhawk (possibly) Eric to Erlynn
Perrenland
Verbobonc
South Province
Lordship of the Isles
Sunndi (possibly) Hazendel to Valenta
Ice Barbarians
Snow Barbarians
Wolf Nomads
Geoff
Sterich
Principality of Ulek
Yeomanry (possibly) Crispin Redwell (human) to Vyndi Skyspea (goliath)
Ket
Ull


Given the 2024 Greyhawk is supposed to be back to the original 1E 576 version based on the map this is a HUGE yikes, since the gold box set who the rulers were in that time period. I was fine (although I didn't like it) with them changing stuff with the wars/from the ashes/Living Greyhawk eras since those were in the future. But this is like bringing back pre-Time of Troubles Forgotten Realms and willy-nilly changing races and genders and shit for established rulers.
How many of those "established rulers" had more than a single line of text before? The only one that really stands out to me is the Prince (now Princess) of the Principality of Ulek. These changes represent the desire to make D&D worlds feel more inclusive. There are far more female players now than there were 4 decades ago, so they figured that new players (not us) would like a world with more female leaders. I don't really object, but that's because I don't see the change as a dramatic alteration to the world nor do I feel it disrespects the setting or its original writers.
I'm pretty sure in the boxed set (maybe not the folio) every one of them was named at least, so you knew who they were. Changing them is just retarded typical progressive crap to act like it was always this way for the new generation

I

#29
November 07, 2024, 04:53:14 PM
Quote from: M2A0 on November 07, 2024, 02:38:34 PM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on November 07, 2024, 01:02:44 PMMy opinion: stick to the 1980 folio or the 1983 boxed set. That's Greyhawk.

The 2001 Living Greyhawk Gazeteer is an overlooked book that really deserves for love.

It sure is.  Even for people like myself who prefer to end the "official" timeline where the gazetteer and boxed set leave off, it's a great product.  I just ignore the stuff after that, which is easily done.  You still have plenty of content that is well worth the price of the book.
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