This question is spurred on from my last playtest game I had, a Holloween themed one where the party had to face off against a Masked Slasher villain, the shitck being the guy was just a high level Esper who happened to be possessed by the pop-culture thought-form of Slasher-Films. within a 200 ft sphere around him reality would conform to the tropes/cliche's of a slasher film around him.

The players wanted to try to banish the spirit inside the guy as opposed to resort to outright murdering him, and attempted to wrestle him down in the middle of the street and draw a banishing circle around him.

As the DM I was sweating bullets cause at this phase in the playtest campaign, I hadn't had an instance of wrestling/grappling come up before so I quickly resorted to using the Basic Fantasy rules for wrestling, which are functional but lack a lot to be desired. often characters just making the same actions over and over in an attempt to keep a larger foe down.

Unrelated, but they totally failed to keep the corn-fed mofo down and resorted to dumping a several mags of 9mm into it to very little effect.

TL:DR I had to use Basic Fantasy's grappling rules, and while usable aren't exactly amazing either, wanted to know if there was other OSR systems that had "Good" grapple/wrestling mechanics.

Piss, meant to use quick edit not quote, my bad.

I recommend taking a look at Dungeon Grappling from Gaming Ballistic.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/202537/dungeon-grappling

I've always been partial to the system in the D&D Companion set.

I think that the first thing we have to define is "good at what?"
Are you looking for grappling rules that are complex and allow for a variety of maneuvers?
Are you looking for rules that are simple and easy to apply?
Are you looking for something to provide fast resolution in the abstract?

It all depends.
I would like to think that the grappling/wrestling rules I have in Baptism of Fire, which I've just slightly added to compared to Lion & Dragon, are "good" grappling rules, but that depends on what things you want in terms of complexity, options, and mechanics.

You know deep in your heart the answer is the 2e Punching/Wrestling Table.

I have enjoyed using the system from The Dragon issue #83 by Roger Moore. Its a fun fast paced system that is easy to use.

Quote from: Opaopajr on November 05, 2024, 02:08:47 AM You know deep in your heart the answer is the 2e Punching/Wrestling Table.

Or Roger E. Moore's fantastic rules "How to Finish Fights Faster" in Dragon 89, as a replacement for the Grappling, Pummeling and Overbearing rules in the DMG.

They're so good that they fit nicely as a replacement that could lead into/merge as a baseline for Oriental Adventures Martial Arts rules side-by-side.

The real question is what is it people want out of grappling. If you want to be able to lock up with someone, and stop them from moving/acting. You could do this with a Hit Roll, and perhaps have a list of conditions you can apply. I would caveat that most grappling rules like this, are opposed checks. Which is a deviation from "standard" d20 task-resolution, but there is no reason you couldn't apply it.

Conditions to apply via grappling could have commensurate penalties. You could simulate all kinds of stuff from WWE style wrestling, to realistic, grab/hold struggling etc. But you have to know specifically what you want from the sub-system.

In the specific example you cite above. Quick and dirty: I'd have made both combatants make a hit-roll, the one that rolled the highest, wins and has control of the other and allowed half-movement to the winner, no movement to the loser. I'd give penalties to any loser depending on how big the difference of the loss was, -4 or higher for example, and the *only* thing they can do is try to escape. This would force the loser to make the check every round while allowing the grappler(s) to also roll. This means if multiple people grapple someone he has to roll against all of them. You could speed things along by allowing one roll with multiple opponents getting +2 per additional grappler.

Everything else should be wrapped up in normal To-Hit mechanics.

 

Quote from: Exploderwizard on November 06, 2024, 01:47:03 PMI have enjoyed using the system from The Dragon issue #83 by Roger Moore. Its a fun fast paced system that is easy to use.

Goddamn i love the cover to that issue of Dragon.

Im usually looking for something simple so ive used Sword and Wizardry's grappling system.

I feel that the best system is a simple opposed STR roll to grab, opposed STR roll to pin, opposed STR or DEX roll to break free. Shadowdark my current favourite OSR allows this fine, with some cool stuff like Fighters getting Advantage, without actually having any "grapple rules" section.

Quote from: RPGPundit on November 04, 2024, 11:33:49 PMI think that the first thing we have to define is "good at what?"
Are you looking for grappling rules that are complex and allow for a variety of maneuvers?
Are you looking for rules that are simple and easy to apply?
Are you looking for something to provide fast resolution in the abstract?

It all depends.
I would like to think that the grappling/wrestling rules I have in Baptism of Fire, which I've just slightly added to compared to Lion & Dragon, are "good" grappling rules, but that depends on what things you want in terms of complexity, options, and mechanics.

Just Read through the BOF grapple rules, they are certainly better than the Basic Fantasy rules from a flow stand point.

I think I'm looking for a happy medium between Quick Resolution and Options, so it's not just the player and NPC making repeated opposed strength checks or saving throws against each other, something where skill or guessing plays a factor. I'll check out a couple of the dragon magazine articles others have suggested.

The point of the rules/setting I'm going for is more simulated street fight, where often the ground game decides a one on one fight assuming firearms or knives are not involved, from that standpoint some decent grapple/wrestling rules I think fit.